the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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marc108
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by marc108 »

I would be interested to see what the Sayadaw would say if he knew his students were charging 150$ an hour for Meditation lessons!

The more I receive teachings from my (lay) Teacher the more abhorrent I find charging for the Dhamma. My Teacher has not even -mentioned- Dana to me, he's instructed, given phone, email and in person interviews as well as weekly sittings and monthly day longs completely free with no strings attached... In fact he pays a large portion of the cost of renting our building himself!
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Hanzze
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by Hanzze »

As it is often about "while living on the food offered by the faithful..." I guess the wrong livelihood for Bhikkhus (recluses and brahmins) might be very related to this.

Ven. Sayadaw would not say much, he had declared such things very often already. One can not change others.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

I find the whole idea of lay teachers a little weird - it seems to me that if you want to make a livelihood out of teaching the Dhamma, you should become a monk. To my knowledge, the idea of a "lay teacher" who makes cash off teaching and guiding retreats is a totally western, capitalistic invention. There are tons of great lay teachers out there, but I think that it does have the side-effect of making monasticism seem unnecessary or even unideal.

Just my two cents.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
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Hanzze
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by Hanzze »

if you want to make a livelihood out of teaching the Dhamma, you should become a monk
Dear LonesomeYogurt,

That one would not be different to a layman teacher you like to critice. Dhamma is something given freely without strings. When ever there is a dependency (food for teaching) the teaching would be not clean and free as it should be.

A Monks task is not to teach. A Monk who teaches does it out of compassion and nothing else.

So a compassionated motivation would be, frist being free of defilements by one self, independent from desire and then able to teach.

How ever, everybody would find his teacher or his pupils in dependency of his karmic possibilities. There is nothing wrong on the journey to the path, as long the journey is not called (mistaken) as the path.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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marc108
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by marc108 »

Video: Selling the Dharma
http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2012/11/vi ... -container" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


gotta love it... self-righteous justification for selling the Dhamma! please also read the last bit of comments where Vince Horn justifies charging 50-100$ an hour for meditation instruction by saying the Dana-based teaching structure is a 'fundamentalist, literalist interpretation' :clap:
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by Cittasanto »

marc108 wrote:Video: Selling the Dharma
http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2012/11/vi ... -container" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


gotta love it... self-righteous justification for selling the Dhamma! please also read the last bit of comments where Vince Horn justifies charging 50-100$ an hour for meditation instruction by saying the Dana-based teaching structure is a 'fundamentalist, literalist interpretation' :clap:
I got to 5:54 and turned off.
that vince fellow obviously doesn't understand the beauty of non-preformance.
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by DNS »

We live in the information age. As my son recently put it, "information is no longer a commodity." We live in an age with quick and easy access to information with the internet, wikipedia, Access to Insight, Dhamma Wiki, Dhamma Wheel, and numerous other sites offering information and instruction and access to the Suttas at no charge.

As a result, the lay teachers and centers charging exorbitant fees may find fewer and fewer customers over time. There is certainly nothing wrong with charging for facilities such as room and board, meals, etc, but the high fees for simply information about the Dhamma? That appears to cross a line that the Buddha did not want crossed. And perhaps the information age will take care of that and the allure of paying high prices for it will fade away.
carlosm
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by carlosm »

marc108 wrote:Video: Selling the Dharma
http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2012/11/vi ... -container" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


gotta love it... self-righteous justification for selling the Dhamma! please also read the last bit of comments where Vince Horn justifies charging 50-100$ an hour for meditation instruction by saying the Dana-based teaching structure is a 'fundamentalist, literalist interpretation' :clap:
that's a really disturbing video :-/
SamKR
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by SamKR »

Come, give me money and only then I will teach you how to get rid of your greed...
Something doesn't sound quite right. :thinking:
dhammaprotectors
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by dhammaprotectors »

What about monastic organisations or sangha :buddha1: asking directly for donations for their so-called charity projects instead of by way of dana?

What about Ajahn Brahm asking for a fixed upfront money to participate to bid in an auction sale to book him ("Ajahn Brahm for sale")?
Is this right livelihood of monastic although it says it's for raising fund for his bhikkhunis sangha?
Cannot help thinking why a Bhikkhu Sangha is involving in the affairs of a Bhikkhuni Sangha & why is the money donating to a Bhikkhu Sangha and not directly to the Nun monastery?
Why is Ajahn Brahm in control of the Bhikkhuni Sangha & their affairs? It's complicated.

Find it indeed shocking :jawdrop: that monastic is allowed to do such thing.
Isn't their authority the Dhamma Vinaya :rules: and is this not against the Vinaya or the spirit of dana?

Any thoughts on this? :juggling: :thinking: :namaste:
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Polar Bear
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by Polar Bear »

There's a whole thread on that issue dhammaprotector

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 65&start=0
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reflection
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by reflection »

Haha, awesome.
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by dhammaprotectors »

polarbuddha101 wrote:There's a whole thread on that issue dhammaprotector

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 65&start=0
Thanks. (Noted).
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marc108
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by marc108 »

Ajahn Brahm is clearly the frontman because the Bhikkhunis want it.

This is not comparing apples to apples. The amount of Dhamma teaching Ajahn Brahm has put out into the world
Is perhaps unmatched in a thousand years. Ajahn Brahm isnt charging for his teachings. He isn't trying to fund himself or his own monastery, he's trying to fund the Bhikkhuni Sanga. This isn't the same as charging 150$/hour for meditation lessons.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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tiltbillings
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Re: the ethics of lay teachers who charge money

Post by tiltbillings »

Just a note: This thread will not be for re-litigating the Ajahn Brahm for sale question.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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