tiltbillings wrote: Modus.Ponens wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:If you do not have hands, you will not hold a gun, a knife, a club, or use your hands themselves to kill someone.
That's silly. Obviously, owning a gun is different from having a knife or a club (or your hands). Guns revolutionized the way wars are fought and there's a reason for it: they are way more likely to kill. You don't see soldiers going to battle with golf clubs!
What is silly is your third and fourth sentences. A gun can do nothing until it is picked up by the hands of the individual who is going to use it.
I don't see anything silly in them.
By that logic, women could wear cleavages in temples. There's nothing inherently wrong with cleavages. Yet they are banned from the temples.
This is assuming that theravadin buddhists are conscious objectors. If not, then owning a gun to protect yourself is a possible way to deal with threats.
This Theravadin Buddhist was a card carrying, state recognized conscientious objector, which is what I assume you mean by "conscious objectors," during the draft era of the late 60's and early to mid 70's. Owning a gun and being a conscientious objector are not contradictory.
Happy to know a fellow concientious objector (that's what I meant, my english has its flaws).
They are not contraditory, but are certainly negatively correlated. I remember the story you told about a doctor who was serving in a war, and was a conscientious objector, and in the heat of the moment he killed another person (I don't remember if it was self deffense or other reason). Had there not been a gun there, he would not have killed. The problem with having guns is as exemplified in this and the other story I told: a gun can be a temptation in the heat of the moment. Not having them is better if you are following the first precept to its ultimate consequences.
This is a very american thing. Here in europe most countries put so many barriers on owning a gun that there's praticaly noone with a gun. Here the question is not "should a buddhist own a gun?", but "should a civilian own a gun?".
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)