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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:17 am
by Ben
Hi Dhammakid

Yes, anyone can start a thread in appreciation of the work of social workers, no problem!
I don't recall the Buddha advising against the use of weapons, per se. In SN42.3 the Buddha did detail what happened to those warriors killed in battle who were 'striving & exerting themselves in battle believing that in doing so would land them a place amongst the devas'. The sutta links the action of killing and view with the destination of a warrior killed in battle:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sometimes in life we have to make some pretty hard decisions, and if we have to use force to neutralise someone's intention to harm himself or others, and if that force is used wisely and compassionately, then I see no problem. In life we are often confronted with choices that are morally murky. We can be guided by the precepts and the Dhamma, but sometimes we will have to rely on our own wisdom. Fortunately, by studying the texts, through bhavana (mental cultivation/meditation), and no small measure of common sense, we can navigate some of life's morally difficult decisions.
Kind regards

Ben

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:32 am
by appicchato
Annabel wrote:May I ask you what you think about bounty hunting- wrong or right livelyhood, or is this a borderline case?
Hi Annabel,

Haven't seen the Dog...except in the news a couple of times...

And to answer your question, I don't really have a view on this one...it is what it is, and I haven't seen any benefit (yet) in pondering the pros and cons of it...

Be well... ;)

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:08 am
by stuka
All of the silly monkey-chatter aside, let's take a look at just who and what this "Dog" fellow is:

Duane Chapman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman
Born February 2, 1953 (1953-02-02) (age 55)
Denver, Colorado
Occupation Bounty hunter, television personality
Spouse(s) La Fonda Sue Honeycutt (1972-1977)
Anne M. Tegnell (1979-?)
Lyssa Rae Brittian (1982-1991)
Tawny Marie ?-1994
Beth Smith 2006-present
Children 11, including Duane Lee Chapman, II and Leland Chapman
Website
Official Website

Duane Lee "Dog" Chapman (born February 2, 1953 in Denver, Colorado [1]) is an American bounty hunter and bail bondsman who lives in Honolulu, Hawaii. He stars in Dog the Bounty Hunter, a weekly reality television program which is broadcast on the A&E Network (USA), Virgin 1 (both UK), Bravo, and FOX8/Nine Network (Australia) .

Chapman, a former gang member with 18 prior convictions for armed robbery,[2] was sentenced in Pampa, Texas to a five year prison term in 1977 after being convicted of the first degree murder of Jerry Oliver. Chapman maintains his innocence of murder but suggests he was a legal accessory for not reporting the shooting to the police. He was released on probation after 1 and a half years.[3]

Dog's career in bounty hunting began when he was in court disputing child support. When he told the judge he did not have the money to pay, the judge offered him a deal to bring in a fugitive in exchange for the judge to pay part of Chapman's child support [4] for Duane Lee and Leland Chapman.
:roll:

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:16 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings stuka,

Well, for Dog it looks as if being a bounty hunter is "Improved" livelihood, whether or not it's classified as "Right" or "Wrong".

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:43 am
by Nicholas Weeks
Seems a futile exercise to try and judge the right livelihood of the job of bounty hunting with only one bounty hunter for a data point.

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:51 am
by Dhammakid
Ben wrote:Hi Dhammakid

Yes, anyone can start a thread in appreciation of the work of social workers, no problem!
I don't recall the Buddha advising against the use of weapons, per se. In SN42.3 the Buddha did detail what happened to those warriors killed in battle who were 'striving & exerting themselves in battle believing that in doing so would land them a place amongst the devas'. The sutta links the action of killing and view with the destination of a warrior killed in battle:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sometimes in life we have to make some pretty hard decisions, and if we have to use force to neutralise someone's intention to harm himself or others, and if that force is used wisely and compassionately, then I see no problem. In life we are often confronted with choices that are morally murky. We can be guided by the precepts and the Dhamma, but sometimes we will have to rely on our own wisdom. Fortunately, by studying the texts, through bhavana (mental cultivation/meditation), and no small measure of common sense, we can navigate some of life's morally difficult decisions.
Kind regards

Ben
Thanks very much Ben for the clarification and valuable insight. I pretty much agree with you.

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:52 am
by Dhammakid
Will wrote:Seems a futile exercise to try and judge the right livelihood of the job of bounty hunting with only one bounty hunter for a data point.
Ahhh, that statement is a breath of fresh air. Thanks for reminding us of this important aspect.

Namaste,
Dhammakid

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:02 am
by stuka
Will wrote:Seems a futile exercise to try and judge the right livelihood of the job of bounty hunting with only one bounty hunter for a data point.
True enough, but the premise of the thread was indeed based upon the example of this single data point.

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:04 am
by stuka
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings stuka,

Well, for Dog it looks as if being a bounty hunter is "Improved" livelihood, whether or not it's classified as "Right" or "Wrong".

Metta,
Retro. :)

:lol:

It would seem so. That fact does not seem to induce any sort of "nice cozy-warm feeling", however....

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:35 am
by Ben
stuka wrote:All of the silly monkey-chatter aside...
Monkey chatter??

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:11 am
by stuka
Aye, Monkey-Chatter.

Image

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:15 am
by retrofuturist
Papanca?

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:19 am
by stuka
retrofuturist wrote:Papanca?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Aye, my brother, Papanca. In this case, the papanca of Schadenfreude over the public exploitation of the misfortunes and suffering that others incur, whether they ultimately deserve it, or not.
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
cause Im in need of some restraint
Image

(Photo replaces original of Peter Fechter lying against the Western side of Die Mauer)

Hier liegt Peter Fechter, einer Straftat. Oder war er wirklich?

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:25 am
by Annapurna
Dhammakid wrote:
Ben wrote:Hi Dhammakid and all

The Buddha gave us criteria for determining what constitutes wrong livelihood, it has been mentioned earlier in this thread. In the post I wrote, I suggested that in assessing whether bounty hunting is indeed wrong livelihood, one would need to determine whether the profession was in anyway business or dealing in weapons or business or dealing with human beings,the latter usually interpreted as trade in prostitutes or slaves. One could argue that bounty hunting could breach business with weapons or business in human beings, directly or by proximity, but I would be unconvinced.
I would argue that bounty hunting is not inherently wrong livelihood. However, that is not to say that there is more than ample opportunity for bounty hunters to engage in morally reprehensible or dubious decisions and/or activities in the hunting of their bounty. While there can be no doubt that the end, making bail jumpers accountable for their actions, is a good thing, does the end justify the morally dubious means some bounty hunters of achieving that aim? Having witnessed the portrayal of one high-profile bounty hunter on TV, can we make a judgment that all bounty hunters are likewise engaged in morally reprehensible activities in order to apprehend the wanted?
Kind regards

Ben
Hello Ben, All,
If the Buddha set out the specific criteria, and if one has to stretch in order to accuse bounty hunters according to that criteria, then I must admit I cannot say bounty hunting is inherently Wrong Livelihood. I am sorry for misinterpreting the Buddha's criteria. I guess I can only say I am vehemently opposed, and bias against, this type of livelihood, as I am law enforcement in general. I just don't see the reason why we should glorifying or giving praise to bounty hunters when they are clearly no more righteous or morally strong than the rest of us. After this thread, can we start praising the work of social workers?

As far as weapons go, does the Buddha make any statement about the use of weapons against other living beings?

Namaste,
Dhammakid
I just don't see the reason why we should glorifying or giving praise to bounty hunters when they are clearly no more righteous or morally strong than the rest of us.
But that is not what is being done when I ask and we simply discuss what type of livelihood it constitutes.

Namaste!

Annabel

Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:32 am
by stuka
Annabel wrote:
But that is not what is being done when I ask and we simply discuss what type of livelihood it constitutes.

Namaste!

Annabel
The problem lies in the indiscriminate nature of the beast.