Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

[Individual]

My TV happened to flip onto some documentary about S&M, I believe. For those who might not know what that term means, S&M means "sadism and masochism," a sexual fetish where a person either enjoys causing pain, suffering, and humiliation (sadism) or receiving pain, suffering, and humiliation (masochism).

With most types of voluntary sexual activities, I think it's safe to say that it's permitted. It's also safe to say that serial rapists who engage in sadistic activities are clearly not permitted.

What I'm getting at here is voluntary S&M: Would this be regarded as "unwholesome"? Cittas associated with sadism or masochism are unwholesome. Would this still apply, though, in voluntary activities like this?

[Fede]

"YourTV just 'happened' to flip...?"

Providing both members are ready, willing, able and enjoying it voluntarily, without coercion or force - it' does not contravene the third precept.
But I'd be hard pushed to believe many Buddhists would indulge.
there again, each to his own.....

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Individual,

What I'm getting at here is voluntary S&M: Would this be regarded as "unwholesome"? Cittas associated with sadism or masochism are unwholesome. Would this still apply, though, in voluntary activities like this?

Volitional physical actions are the byproduct of wholesome and unwholesome mental states, rather than the causality being the other way around. Therefore, observance of the manifested action can only ever provide an approximate estimate of the mindstates underpinning it.

But does it violate the precepts? No.

Metta,
Retro.

[cooran]

Hello Individual,

Kamma does not operate like civil law ... i.e. many things are legally O.K. between consenting adults. It is set in motion by cetana (intention).

The Buddha urged human beings to live non-injurious lives, hurting neither themselves [masochism], nor others [sadism] and neither themselves and others [sado-masochism].
Each intentional action of thought word or deed accrues either wholesome (kusala) or unwholesome (akusala) kamma and vipaka (results).
Akusala citta includes mind states with greed/lust, delusion/ignorance, or aversion. Kusala citta includes all wholesome, or skillful mind states.
Sado-masochistic thoughts and behaviour most certainly strengthens latent tendencies and adds to unwholesome kammic accumulations.

metta
Chris

[nomad]

"YourTV just 'happened' to flip...?"

Providing both members are ready, willing, able and enjoying it voluntarily, without coercion or force - it' does not contravene the third precept.
But I'd be hard pushed to believe many Buddhists would indulge.
there again, each to his own.....

Don’t be so quick to count people out when it comes to something like this. There are people with sexual paraphilias that come from all walks of life, and it’s not necessarily against Buddhist principles (i.e. third precept) if it’s with a willing partner.

From Access to Insight...

Misconduct is regard to sense pleasures is formally defined as "the volition with sexual intent occurring through the bodily door, causing transgression with an illicit partner".8 The primary question this definition elicits is: who is to qualify as an illicit partner? For men, the text lists twenty types of women who are illicit partners. These can be grouped into three categories: (1) a woman who is under the protection of elders or other authorities charged with her care, e.g., a girl being cared for by parents, by an older brother or sister, by other relatives, or by the family as a whole; (2) a woman who is prohibited by convention, that is, close relatives forbidden under family tradition, nuns and other women vowed to observe celibacy as a spiritual discipline, and those forbidden as partners under the law of the land; and (3) a woman who is married or engaged to another man, even one bound to another man only by a temporary agreement. In the case of women, for those who are married any man other than a husband is an illicit partner. For all women a man forbidden by tradition or under religious rules is prohibited as a partner. For both men and women any violent, forced, or coercive union, whether by physical compulsion or psychological pressure, can be regarded as a transgression of the precept even when the partner is not otherwise illicit. But a man or woman who is widowed or divorced can freely remarry according to choice.

~nomad

[Ben]

Hello Individual,

Kamma does not operate like civil law ... i.e. many things are legally O.K. between consenting adults. It is set in motion by cetana (intention)...

...Sado-masochistic thoughts and behaviour most certainly strengthens latent tendencies and adds to unwholesome kammic accumulations.

metta
Chris

An excellent post, Chris.
Metta

Ben

[Individual]

Fede, it honestly did just flip on. My mom left the TV on for a few hours,.. I just ignored it. Also, it turns out it was a documentary about gay people, called "Queer Street," I think, and it just had a large segment on S&M.

Also, I'd have to agree with Chris that it is bad karma, although that doesn't mean I'd be judgmental towards anybody who likes that sort of thing.