Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Strive4Karuna » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:51 pm

What is the karmic consequence for breaking the 5th precept?

Hypothetically, if there a was person who never did anything negative to anyone under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the only negative kamma would be the hurting of oneself, which would be the damage to ones own mind correct?
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:08 pm

DN 31
DN 31: Sigalovada Sutta wrote:There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness:

(i) loss of wealth,
(ii) increase of quarrels,
(iii) susceptibility to disease,
(iv) earning an evil reputation,
(v) shameless exposure of body,
(vi) weakening of intellect.


Snp 2.14
Snp 2.14: Dhammika Sutta wrote:A layman who has chosen to practice this Dhamma should not indulge in the drinking of intoxicants. He should not drink them nor encourage others to do so; realizing that it leads to madness. Through intoxication foolish people perform evil deeds and cause other heedless people to do likewise. He should avoid intoxication, this occasion for demerit, which stupefies the mind, and is the pleasure of foolish people.


AN 8.40
AN 8.40: Apāya­saṃvattanika Sutta wrote:Drinking liquor and wine, repeatedly pursued, developed, and cultivated, is conducive to hell, to the animal realm, and to the sphere of afflicted spirits; for one reborn as a human being drinking liquor and wine at minimum conduces to madness.
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Doshin » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:16 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:What is the karmic consequence for breaking the 5th precept?

Hypothetically, if there a was person who never did anything negative ...


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable, AN4.77 wrote:"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?

"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]

"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."

(my highlights)

In other words, actions/intentions have karmic consequences, but if you where to try and understand when and how, you will go mad.

Know there is (karmic) consequences, and don't think any further bout it.

_/\_
Knowing about dhamma, does not imply knowing dhamma
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby rowboat » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:42 pm

culaavuso wrote:DN 31
DN 31: Sigalovada Sutta wrote:There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness:

(i) loss of wealth,
(ii) increase of quarrels,
(iii) susceptibility to disease,
(iv) earning an evil reputation,
(v) shameless exposure of body,
(vi) weakening of intellect.


Snp 2.14
Snp 2.14: Dhammika Sutta wrote:A layman who has chosen to practice this Dhamma should not indulge in the drinking of intoxicants. He should not drink them nor encourage others to do so; realizing that it leads to madness. Through intoxication foolish people perform evil deeds and cause other heedless people to do likewise. He should avoid intoxication, this occasion for demerit, which stupefies the mind, and is the pleasure of foolish people.


AN 8.40
AN 8.40: Apāya­saṃvattanika Sutta wrote:Drinking liquor and wine, repeatedly pursued, developed, and cultivated, is conducive to hell, to the animal realm, and to the sphere of afflicted spirits; for one reborn as a human being drinking liquor and wine at minimum conduces to madness.


:goodpost:
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:01 am

Strive4Karuna wrote:Hypothetically, if there a was person who never did anything negative to anyone under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the only negative kamma would be the hurting of oneself, which would be the damage to ones own mind correct?

I think that's almost* correct but it's such a big "if" that we don't need to spend a lot of time thinking about the possibility.

:rolleye:
Kim

* drugs do hurt the body as well as the mind
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Invincible_Summer » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:44 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:What is the karmic consequence for breaking the 5th precept?

Hypothetically, if there a was person who never did anything negative to anyone under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the only negative kamma would be the hurting of oneself, which would be the damage to ones own mind correct?


Not to mention increased risk of diabetes, liver damage, ulcers, depression, etc.
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby waterchan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:15 am

Invincible_Summer wrote:Not to mention increased risk of diabetes, liver damage, ulcers, depression, etc.


Moderate alcohol consumption is actually shown to lower the risk of developing diabetes. However alcohol can produce both hypoglycaemic and hyperglycaemic effects so it is something people who are already diabetic should be wary of.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Disciple » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:07 am

As a layperson I would say there is nothing wrong with it if you can keep it to a limit.
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:23 am

Strive4Karuna wrote:Hypothetically, if there a was person who never did anything negative to anyone under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the only negative kamma would be the hurting of oneself, which would be the damage to ones own mind correct?


Damage to one's own mind and body, yes. And it's quite difficult to meditate and be mindful with a hangover. ;)
Well, oi dunno...
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Re: Breaking the 5th Precept Consequences?

Postby Sati1 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:00 pm

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----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)
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