Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby manas » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:16 am

wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering ---> asubha nimitta ---> i thinking about Buddha ---> i thik it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts are not.
Sorry for my english....


Sexual thoughts - if about an appropriate object of attraction - are not 'dirty', wolf. Who put that idea into your mind?

It is possible to be someone who accepts their sexuality, and even rejoices in it, AND is a follower of the Buddha AND is following the five precepts AND has a steady meditation practice.

with metta,
manas.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby wolf1 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:12 am

manas wrote:
wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering ---> asubha nimitta ---> i thinking about Buddha ---> i thik it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts are not.
Sorry for my english....


Sexual thoughts - if about an appropriate object of attraction - are not 'dirty', wolf. Who put that idea into your mind?

It is possible to be someone who accepts their sexuality, and even rejoices in it, AND is a follower of the Buddha AND is following the five precepts AND has a steady meditation practice.

with metta,

manas.


simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby Coyote » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:37 am

Wolf1, did you take a look at the website I posted earlier in the thread? Although I think it is mainly aimed at males, it has some really good articles and tips for helping you break the cycle of porn addiction. Not sure I want to go into detail, but even light porn addiction changes your brain and body in some not-so-good ways. After abstaining for about a month, your brain reverts back to normal, and there is not so much of a compulsion.
Unless you have pretty strong practice, I don't think meditation techniques in themselves are going to help much.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:55 am

wolf1 wrote:simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.


No, porn is not dirty. Yet again, you are clouding your practice with perceptions that in the end, condemn you for your tastes.

You cannot indicate that you believe your thoughts are clean, but porn is dirty.

And by watching reading porn, your thoughts are sullied....
By that process, anything widely used and enjoyed by multitudes, could be described in the same way.

Simply because something becomes an addiction, it does not make that substance, or object, bad, dirty, evil, wrong or damaging.

You attitude to it, your addiction, is your responsibility.
Porn i s not dirty.
but you must address your focus, because by thinking you are guilty of watching/using something 'dirty', then you are tainted, by association.

This is not so.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby wolf1 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:08 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
wolf1 wrote:simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.


No, porn is not dirty. Yet again, you are clouding your practice with perceptions that in the end, condemn you for your tastes.

You cannot indicate that you believe your thoughts are clean, but porn is dirty.

And by watching reading porn, your thoughts are sullied....
By that process, anything widely used and enjoyed by multitudes, could be described in the same way.

Simply because something becomes an addiction, it does not make that substance, or object, bad, dirty, evil, wrong or damaging.

You attitude to it, your addiction, is your responsibility.
Porn i s not dirty.
but you must address your focus, because by thinking you are guilty of watching/using something 'dirty', then you are tainted, by association.

This is not so.


u say porn is not dirty.... it is just artificial. and u see how other peoples do sex it is not a right thing. so artificial.

Coyote wrote:Wolf1, did you take a look at the website I posted earlier in the thread? Although I think it is mainly aimed at males, it has some really good articles and tips for helping you break the cycle of porn addiction. Not sure I want to go into detail, but even light porn addiction changes your brain and body in some not-so-good ways. After abstaining for about a month, your brain reverts back to normal, and there is not so much of a compulsion.
Unless you have pretty strong practice, I don't think meditation techniques in themselves are going to help much.


yes, i started today. Thank you.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:59 pm

wolf1 wrote:u say porn is not dirty.... it is just artificial. and u see how other peoples do sex it is not a right thing. so artificial.


You command of English is commendable, truly. I would that I could speak your tongue as lucidly as you do, English.
But here, I confess. I'm not entirely sure I have grasped what you mean....?

Could you elaborate?

Many thanks.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby waterchan » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:24 am

Not to be insensitive, I think a lot of men can relate to porn addiction, but...

Am I the only person who laughed out loud upon seeing the title of this thread? :tongue:
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:06 am

waterchan wrote:Not to be insensitive, I think a lot of men can relate to porn addiction, but...

Am I the only person who laughed out loud upon seeing the title of this thread? :tongue:

Possibly.
Probably.

That is to say, for my part, I did not laugh.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby mirco » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:16 am

There is porn. There is addiction. I don't know how many of you actually know what it means to be addicted / to 'be' an addict. When people hear "porn addict", they tend to laugh, because it has got "porn" in it. When the same people her "drug addict" no one laughes. But basically it is the same. The same mental insanity, the same despair, the same road to death. If you don't understand what this means, then you are probably not an addict.

I don't want to take things too seriously, because that does not help. Condemning ones relapses does not help. Things happen. And things happen again. Just get back on the track and give it a fresh start. Remember, it is a stepwise training, like in any other aspect of the Buddhist training. One time will be the last time one did it.

P.S.: Same for ego-identification, which is an addiction, too. Actually all non-Arahants are addicts.
Last edited by mirco on Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:57 am

mirco wrote:There is porn. There is addiction. I don't know how many of you know actually know what it means to be addicted / to 'be' an addict. When people hear "porn addict", they tend to laugh, because it has got "porn" in it. When the same people her "drug addict" no one laughes. But basically it is the same. The same mental insanity, the same despair, the same road to death. If you don't understand what this means, then you are probably not an addict.

I don't want to take things too seriously, because that does not help. Condemning ones relapses does not help. Things happen. And things happen again. Just get back on the track and give it a fresh start. Remember, it is a stepwise training, like in any other aspect of the Buddhist training. One time will be the last time one did it.

P.S.: Same for ego-identification, which is an addiction, too. Actually all non-Arahants are addicts.


Quite:
Without appearing conscious of it, most of us are addicted to one thing or another.... it could be a routine we have become accustomed to, and feel that if we break it, there is an offence to our sensibilities... like the gentleman who would take his dog for a walk to the park, every morning, at 06.30 on the dot, and on the return journey, would stop to buy a newspaper.
His distress was palpable when the newsagents closed.... and when his dog died, he actually asked, "What on earth am I going to do every morning, now?"

The 'withdrawal symptoms' were almost too painful to witness.

My point to the OP is that to demonise herself, her views and what she does, is counter-productive, and actually makes the situation worse.
Her addiction is not so much the problem; her attitude to the result of her addiction, and her opinion of her worth, in her own eyes - are almost too painful to witness.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby mirco » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:21 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:My point to the OP is that to demonize herself, her views and what she does, is counter-productive, and actually makes the situation worse.
Her addiction is not so much the problem; her attitude to the result of her addiction, and her opinion of her worth, in her own eyes - are almost too painful to witness.

I can't tell very much about the situation and states of other people and what is best for them and I wonder how you can. But if you have something to share from your own experience, I will listen carefully.

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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:33 am

mirco wrote:.....
I can't tell very much about the situation and states of other people and what is best for them and I wonder how you can.

:anjali:


By reading her posts.
She confesses these attributes throughout.

But if you have something to share from your own experience, I will listen carefully.


Discussing my experiences and sharing them here is a surefire way of disrespecting the OP's right to not have her thread taken off-topic.

This isn't about me. It's about her.

I'm happy to discuss that with you. :)

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby manas » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:30 pm

wolf1 wrote:
manas wrote:
wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering ---> asubha nimitta ---> i thinking about Buddha ---> i thik it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts are not.
Sorry for my english....


Sexual thoughts - if about an appropriate object of attraction - are not 'dirty', wolf. Who put that idea into your mind?

It is possible to be someone who accepts their sexuality, and even rejoices in it, AND is a follower of the Buddha AND is following the five precepts AND has a steady meditation practice.

with metta,

manas.


simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.


Hi wolf,

I am still wondering about why you judge yourself so harshly for watching stuff that is perfectly legal. If two consenting adults - whether they are a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman or a woman, wish to be together sexually, that is all ok. Nothing wrong with any kind of sex, straight or gay or whatever...it's all the same, it's all just sensuality. One is not more 'unwholesome' than the other.

Ok, I admit that porn videos are not a good example of respectful, loving sex. But still, they are legal (I assume you are referring to such videos), and while watching videos is not to my taste (used to be when I was younger though), there is still nothing inherently wrong about doing so.

I'm just concerned that you think being a lesbian is somehow not ok...I am telling you, it is perfectly fine. Just as being straight is fine. It's all just sensual desire. And we all have to deal with that, yes sometimes we accept it, sometimes we fight it, but ultimately there is a long road ahead to not wanting it anymore, and as I said earlier, I feel that the strong ill-will you feel towards yourself as you struggle in such a 'hard' and 'painful' way is doing you more harm than good at this time..I am not saying do porn forever, no; I am just saying, lots of folks do it, and there is no need to beat yourself up so much about it. Maybe try a little acceptance: that you are human, that like virtually all of us here, sex remains an issue. You are not really so unusual...sex is a biggie. Not easily 'eradicated'. IMO it's best to aim for moderation instead. And not hating yourself when you do it. (Guilt and shame actually make the addiction stronger, by the way...really.) We are lay folk, after all. We don't have to be celibate.

with metta,
manas.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:39 pm

:goodpost:
Last edited by TheNoBSBuddhist on Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby mirco » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:16 pm

Yeah, and there are many other links to sites with pictures like that. But I don't post them here. I think, one shouldn't be watching that via this medium 'just like that'.
To me this practice is to be done, when the teacher recommends it, in a way the teacher tells.
But maybe I'm wrong.

I heard of a asubha bhavana training young Bhikkhus do. There are the many body parts from the Mahāsatipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ. Now, the Bhukkhu is supposed to imagine very clearly one of that disgusting parts of the body being in his alms bowl every day for a week. (I forgot if before or while eating or both or neither but before or afterwards). So, this goes on for 32 weeks. After this procedure, a Bhikkhu told, lustful desire pretty much is cooled down - not by suppressing, but through understanding.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby david.sojourn » Wed May 07, 2014 3:34 pm

wolf1 wrote:Dear Forum Members,

i am new on the forum. i practice theravada since one and a half year. i try to leave porn videos because porn is a bad and primitive thing.


Who told you that? Did you tell yourself that?

I know a very enlightened guy who still watches porn.

Primitive? What are you, a robot?

Aren't you a human?

Stop believing what others tell you.

If you're porn habits are causing harm, you must overcome that harm.

But quit believing you are some primitive, evil creature, because you read somewhere that porn is bad.

A little porn here and there, does not block enlightenment.

But, what would I know. I'm a homeless man who eats from Trash Cans.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 3:36 pm

david.sojourn wrote:
wolf1 wrote:Dear Forum Members,

i am new on the forum. i practice theravada since one and a half year. i try to leave porn videos because porn is a bad and primitive thing.


Who told you that? Did you tell yourself that?

I know a very enlightened guy who still watches porn.

Well, let's just say that most people on this forum seem to have higher standards for "very enlightened", thank goodness.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby Mkoll » Wed May 07, 2014 5:58 pm

waterchan wrote:
david.sojourn wrote:
wolf1 wrote:Dear Forum Members,

i am new on the forum. i practice theravada since one and a half year. i try to leave porn videos because porn is a bad and primitive thing.


Who told you that? Did you tell yourself that?

I know a very enlightened guy who still watches porn.

Well, let's just say that most people on this forum seem to have higher standards for "very enlightened", thank goodness.


I laughed. And I thought Lyndon and Ichimaru...I mean waterchan's posts were funny.

wolf1,

I'd recommend that you stop putting so much energy into fighting porn. If your mind is always on porn, whether it's indulging in it or fighting it, it doesn't matter. Either way, the mind is thinking thoughts related to pornography. Thinking about porn causes you to think even more about porn. We call this "positive feedback": A causes B to increase which further increases A and on it goes.

A solution is to take your mind off it. Find something else to do. Deepen your meditation practice. Develop a new hobby. Work more. Go out with friends. Just do something that has nothing to do with porn. Don't do it with the intention of "fighting porn" or "destroying your sexual desire". I think that's a recipe for failure. Do it because you want to do it. Isn't there something else you want to do other than porn?
Peace,
James
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby mirco » Wed May 07, 2014 6:13 pm


Don't fight. Accept, forgive, let go, relax, return to the good.
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Postby rgb1 » Fri May 23, 2014 9:53 pm

Hey wolf1, have a look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Lg9P-VekA

Forcing yourself to dislike porn isn't going to work. Just be mindful of the feelings that arise while you watch it (the pornography). When the feelings arise don't push them away, observe them closely and objectively. the porn isn't the real problem it is your response to it.

Also give the asubha a break, it doesnt seem to be helping. You can use it more skillfully once you understand more about your attachment.

As for a meditation technique, have a look at vipassana/insight meditation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzurcpIDeY. If you want to understand and overcome your addiction, no amount of asubha is going to help.

Hope this helps,
Be well.
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