Lust

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:49 am

Hello everyone I've noticed that since i've advanced in meditation over the past year and half (buddhism in general)and my mind becoming somewhat clearer using the mahasi sayadaw method of mental noting, I'm seeing lust arise like crazy...I feel like every even minorly attractive female I come in contact with I'm lusting over...I actually caught myself in a day dream about me and a girl in a relationship and i kid you not, about 4 minutes later I was looking at someone else. It's actually gotten to the point where it's sickening me. Does anybody else share a similar experience with lust? If so what are some ways of stopping it before it arises I'm aware of foulness of the body as a meditation subject never tried it though, as I'm a little hesitant because I still have anger in me and I read that someone with anger shouldn't do foulness as a meditation subject because it can cause them to commit suicide. Are there certain techniques I can use corresponding with the teachings to help me put out this fire? :jawdrop:
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:09 am

When are you planning to ordain?

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Lust

Postby santa100 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:10 am

maybe try SN 35.127 teaching:
'Come now, monks: with regard to women who are old enough to be your mother, establish the attitude you would have toward your mother. With regard to women who are old enough to be your sister, establish the attitude you'd have toward a sister. With regard to women who are young enough to be your daughter, establish the attitude you'd have toward a daughter.' This is one reason, this is one cause, great king, why young monks — black-haired, endowed with the blessings of youth in the first stage of life — without having played with sensual pleasures nevertheless follow the lifelong chaste life, perfect & pure, and make it last their entire lives.

Also try the 5 strategies in MN 20
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:54 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:When are you planning to ordain?

:namaste:

elaborate please
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby manas » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:02 pm

Hi jordan,

so you see an attractive girl and lust arises. You then find yourself fantasizing about her. Well, I can identify the source of your problem: you are male. Welcome to the human race, my friend.

Seriously, I don't know your age but if you are a healthy young bloke, then having a strong sex drive is a normal and healthy situation, and rather than trying to squash, suppress or 'destroy' it, I recommend just learning how to be moderate with how you indulge in and express it. One way to 'cool' the fire a little, is to be in a relationship, in which there is mutual respect and love along with the lust - that way, it ceases to be all *just* about lust. It's not against the precepts for a layman to have a girlfriend, you know.

metta,
manas.
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:26 pm

manas wrote:Hi jordan,

so you see an attractive girl and lust arises. You then find yourself fantasizing about her. Well, I can identify the source of your problem: you are male. Welcome to the human race, my friend.

Seriously, I don't know your age but if you are a healthy young bloke, then having a strong sex drive is a normal and healthy situation, and rather than trying to squash, suppress or 'destroy' it, I recommend just learning how to be moderate with how you indulge in and express it. One way to 'cool' the fire a little, is to be in a relationship, in which there is mutual respect and love along with the lust - that way, it ceases to be all *just* about lust. It's not against the precepts for a layman to have a girlfriend, you know.

metta,
manas.
:anjali:

No I'm aware it's not and I have tried recently to get into a relationship but I would always find myself feeling uninterested in the conversation she posed like I would rather be meditating than pretending to care about her mundane problems..I don't know maybe I just need to find me a Buddhist girl or ordain seems like I have few options :meditate:
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby manas » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:33 pm

Hi jordan,

i edited my previous post, in case it seemed a bit flippant. Ok if lust is arising more than previously, that could be stuff coming up, maybe, from deep inside. I can recall once, I was meditating quite assiduously for a couple of weeks, and I kept getting 'assailed' by lusty thoughts, which I kept subduing using some of the gruesome methods you might find advocated, and then guess what happened? Because I kept repressing, repressing, repressing, after a while anger arose. I found myself getting irritated by almost anything. So, now instead of lust, I had anger. Which is actually worse than the original lust! That is why I wrote what I did in my (now edited) post.

kind regards
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:44 pm

ihrjordan wrote:
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:When are you planning to ordain?

:namaste:

elaborate please


If you have no intention of ordaining, I don't see this as a problem.
I see it as a natural urge experienced by young men/people who are curious about sexual connections, encounters and relationships.

You judge girls too harshly.
Yes, perhaps, you DO need to find a Buddhist girl with whom you can relate.

This will not guarantee, however, that she will be any less 'mundane' or that you will not be 'irritated' by her problems, even if she DOES practise Buddhism.
She is still a girl, after all.

Do not elevate yourself to feeling 'above her' simply because you are disinterested in what she has to say...
She has a life, she is entitled to lead that life, and she is entitled to believe that a young man showing interest in her will not simply be pursuing an outlet for his sexual desire, and that her life is of no interest to him.

That is what is happening;
I know, my friend was going through the same thing, although he is a devout Christian... the effect and objective were the same.
He grew impatient and intolerant of female company because they did not 'think on his plane' but he was looking for a young lady with whom he could enjoy a sexual relationship.

This is the problem, isn't it?

You wish to follow a Mindful and skilful Buddhist path.
You feel sexual/sensual desire.
You believe that in order to 'Master' your Self', such feelings should be subdued or repressed, but in doing so, Anger arises instead. This would more accurately be described as 'frustration.

so perhaps you should succumb to your perfectly natural and normal urges, and seek/find a young lady with whom you can enjoy a sexual liaison.
But this means developing a relationship, and most young ladies you meet, you evaluate as shallow, boring, mundane, uninteresting.
Obviously, you don't wish to merely "use" them for sex, so you separate from them, because your involvement is unskilful.

I feel for you.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:52 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:When are you planning to ordain?

:namaste:

elaborate please


If you have no intention of ordaining, I don't see this as a problem.
I see it as a natural urge experienced by young men/people who are curious about sexual connections, encounters and relationships.

You judge girls too harshly.
Yes, perhaps, you DO need to find a Buddhist girl with whom you can relate.

This will not guarantee, however, that she will be any less 'mundane' or that you will not be 'irritated' by her problems, even if she DOES practise Buddhism.
She is still a girl, after all.

Do not elevate yourself to feeling 'above her' simply because you are disinterested in what she has to say...
She has a life, she is entitled to lead that life, and she is entitled to believe that a young man showing interest in her will not simply be pursuing an outlet for his sexual desire, and that her life is of no interest to him.

That is what is happening;
I know, my friend was going through the same thing, although he is a devout Christian... the effect and objective were the same.
He grew impatient and intolerant of female company because they did not 'think on his plane' but he was looking for a young lady with whom he could enjoy a sexual relationship.

This is the problem, isn't it?

You wish to follow a Mindful and skilful Buddhist path.
You feel sexual/sensual desire.
You believe that in order to 'Master' your Self', such feelings should be subdued or repressed, but in doing so, Anger arises instead. This would more accurately be described as 'frustration.

so perhaps you should succumb to your perfectly natural and normal urges, and seek/find a young lady with whom you can enjoy a sexual liaison.
But this means developing a relationship, and most young ladies you meet, you evaluate as shallow, boring, mundane, uninteresting.
Obviously, you don't wish to merely "use" them for sex, so you separate from them, because your involvement is unskilful.

I feel for you.

Yes It's like I want to be sympathetic to their problems and really be the best boyfriend but It's honestly just EXHAUSTING and no I don't see myself as being above them. It's just (as you can probably tell) my sense of lust usually overwhelms my interest in them and I end up acting/thinking unintentionally like a sexist Alpha Male :strawman:
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:08 pm

Try to see them as people who are deserving of Compassion and Metta...

You see, at the moment, all you are thinking is, to dissipate your lust.

Therefore, that is obscuring your Compassion and wisdom.

It has elbowed them to one side, and has said:"It really doesn't matter whether they are nice girls or not, you don't really want their company, or to get to know them! All you want to do is to satisfy me!!"

So this lustful feeling is occupying centre stage.
This is what you must master, and put into perspective.

Lust in itself, is not a negative trait.
What it is doing to your Mind-set, and how you are permitting it to influence the way you interact with girls - is.

Imagine if your father had behaved that way with your mother.
You would not respect such an attitude in him, would you?

So really, if you wish to "change your fortune", you need to radically overhaul your opinions and views of young ladies.

Do you have a sister?
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:43 pm

Yes I have 3 and I think I know where this is going. I don't want you to get the wrong idea I treat women very well I'm very respectful and nice. It's just the lust driving me crazy. I work in retail right now so I'm around women like 90% of the time and on the outside I try to be the nicest I can be to women but on the inside I feel like I'm being torched by a fire :cry:
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:59 pm

The reason I asked whether you had a sister was to observe them with boyfriends, see what they find favourable in a man; ask their advice on how best to speak to and engage with other girls, on a personal level.

Working with many women may be torture, but there is nothing wrong with appeasing your own lustful mental state, in private, on your own.

if you know what I mean.

There is no point trying to subdue the fire by pouring gasoline on it....
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby rgb1 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:54 pm

Hey, ihrjordan, just observe the thoughts and feelings when they arise. don't make it a problem. They are there because you have cultivated them in the past. When the lust arises allow it to and let it pass away. Don,t push it away or follow after it, just note it like anything else. They are just thoughts and feelings, see them for what they are when they arise, observe them objectively.
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:03 pm

Sadly, I don't think he just has thoughts of Lust; I think he probably has physical discomfort also.

While your advice is absolutely spot-on for solely mental constructs, his problem also needs addressing on a physical scale.

It's rather like sitting in meditation and having an uncontrollably itchy back. (I had this on Friday!)
At one point or another, it needs to be scratched.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:06 pm

rgb1 wrote:Hey, ihrjordan, just observe the thoughts and feelings when they arise. don't make it a problem. They are there because you have cultivated them in the past. When the lust arises allow it to and let it pass away. Don,t push it away or follow after it, just note it like anything else. They are just thoughts and feelings, see them for what they are when they arise, observe them objectively.

No actually I think you're right. My only problem is to actually realise when i have lust usually when i note it it goes away but thats the problem it's so spontaneous that i forget to note it..
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby walkart » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:09 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
If you have no intention of ordaining, I don't see this as a problem.


Problem is suffering, because lust is suffering it self. Lust make people suffer.
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:17 pm

Indeed. So there is no point in compounding the suffering further by restraining himself unnecessarily.

He is not obligated to observe celibacy. So why force himself to endure it without any need?
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:22 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Indeed. So there is no point in compounding the suffering further by restraining himself unnecessarily.

He is not obligated to observe celibacy. So why force himself to endure it without any need?

:namaste:

That sounds very good in theory but the problem is that it's not controllable. I can't just turn lust off and on and really the process of lust (after examination) is quite stressful and somewhat undesirable. and I have tried that method s has probably everyone else with lust, but it really only supports and cultivates the bad habits :pig: ...
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:25 pm

Of course it's controllable.
if it were UNcontrollable, the women around you would be unsafe in your presence.
you contain and restrain yourself.

Dissipate the lust by whatever physical means you find appropriate.
But to say it is uncontrollable is clearly untrue.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:27 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Of course it's controllable.
if it were UNcontrollable, the women around you would be unsafe in your presence.
you contain and restrain yourself.

Dissipate the lust by whatever physical means you find appropriate.
But to say it is uncontrollable is clearly untrue.

You misunderstand. My actions are controllable. The feeling, Burning feeling of lust one gets after looking at any moderately attractive female is not.
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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