Lust

[Jetavan]

Hello everyone I've noticed that since i've advanced in meditation over the past year and half (buddhism in general)and my mind becoming somewhat clearer using the mahasi sayadaw method of mental noting, I'm seeing lust arise like crazy.

Does the lust diminish if you stop meditating?

[ihrjordan]

Of course it's controllable.
if it were UNcontrollable, the women around you would be unsafe in your presence.
you contain and restrain yourself.

Dissipate the lust by whatever physical means you find appropriate.
But to say it is uncontrollable is clearly untrue.

Which is the meaning of "Impermanent suffering and non-self" btw I guess I'm just looking for a more formal answer to my question like a sutta to recite in my head when the feeling arises or something like that.

[ihrjordan]

Hello everyone I've noticed that since i've advanced in meditation over the past year and half (buddhism in general)and my mind becoming somewhat clearer using the mahasi sayadaw method of mental noting, I'm seeing lust arise like crazy.

Does the lust diminish if you stop meditating?

Hard to say. Tbh It never used to come up like this I feel like I may just be noticing what was always there a little more when I'm using sahti.

[Coyote]

ihrjordan,

I don't know the specifics of the mahasi technique very well, but I would imagine they would advise you to keep on noting, cultivating equanimity and the perception of impermanence, notself, dukkha. What I will say is that celibacy is not mandatory as a layperson and sexual desire is not eliminated until the anagami fruit. If you want to go down that route, then my understanding is that you need to see the drawbacks first. Looks like you have a good start there, but make sure it is not aversion.

[walkart]

Indeed. So there is no point in compounding the suffering further by restraining himself unnecessarily.

He is not obligated to observe celibacy. So why force himself to endure it without any need?

It's can be true, but it's not the case here, because ihrjordan ask us how to stop suffering of lust, not how to stop suffering of precepts.

[TheNoBSBuddhist]

Which is the meaning of "Impermanent suffering and non-self" btw I guess I'm just looking for a more formal answer to my question like a sutta to recite in my head when the feeling arises or something like that.

perhaps reading this, will help....?

[mindstring]

A technique for counteracting lustful (or greedy) feelings that has worked well for me is to look more closely at the features/qualities of whoever (or whatever) I find myself attracted to. I find that lustful thoughts are often as much, or more, about craving for a perception (saññā) or mental formation (saṅkhāra) of beauty that my mind is fabricating as for the actual sense object. When I just quickly see an attractive person, it's like my mind fills in the details with what it wants to see, and it's easy to feel lust. However, the closer I look, the more obvious that person's realities become (e.g., unequal proportions, rolls of fat, wrinkled skin, a few grey hairs, worn clothes, smudged make-up, etc.), and the harder it is to feel lust. Don't stare impolitely, of course, but look past the make-up, hair styles, shapes of clothing, etc.

Anyone's body can be reduced to neither-attractive-nor-unattractive components (skin, hair, muscle, fat, bone, glands, organs, etc.). Reading about the science of anatomy is also a good way to learn how to mentally reduce bodies to components. For example, eye color is just melanin + light refraction; breasts are glandular, fat, and connective tissues, and both/all sexes have the same tissues to some degree; sex organs diverge in the womb from a common template; etc. I once wrote a more detailed blog post about this, here: http://mindstring.net/2014/03/30/reflec ... lsiveness/. Bodies are just biological hardware (rupa) -- a substrate for the arising of sensations, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness (i.e., the five khandhas).

I find that a good way to see differences between internal and external things is to compare how people or things look in dreams vs. how they look when awake. I've seen/fabricated images of people in dreams that are much more beautiful than any person I've ever seen when awake. Practicing lucid dreaming (e.g., trying to stop and examine things in dreams, to control what happens in dreams, or to create and destroy inanimate objects in dreams), keeping a dream journal, attaching labels to dreams for easier remembering, etc. can help one see dreams more clearly.

I agree that reflecting too much on repulsiveness can take one down a dark mental path. Focusing on tiny details can lead to insights, but can also be overwhelming and exhausting. These things are all just mental techniques, treatments, or medicines. Like any medicine, one should take only enough to get well, and taking too much can be harmful.

Hope this helps

[culaavuso]

I'm just looking for a more formal answer to my question like a sutta to recite in my head when the feeling arises or something like that.

One possibility is to review the parts of the body:

There is in this body: hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, muscle, tendons, bones, bone marrow, spleen, heart, liver, membranes, kidneys, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, gall, phlegm, lymph, blood, sweat, fat, tears, oil, saliva, mucus, oil in the joints, urine.

There is discussion on the contemplation of the parts of the body at 32 Parts of the Body Meditation by Ven. Dhamma Viro. There is also discussion in the Path of Purification.

Another possible quote to recite would be the fourth Dhamma summary of Ratthapala:

The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.

It's useful to put in perspective that reciting something mentally to deal with the hindrance is just the first of the five strategies suggested in MN 20 which was linked in santa100's post earlier in this thread. It may be helpful to keep the other four strategies in mind for situations where the first strategy alone is insufficient.

[Mkoll]

Good postings, mindstring and culaavuso.

A strategy that works for me is the "bones" part of the 31 parts of the body. We've all got a skeleton and I'm sure we've all seen models or real skeletons before in real life or on screen so they should be easy to see in your own or another's body. Bones are also less repulsive than feces or something, so they're repulsive enough to reduce lust, but hopefully not repulsive enough to cause aversion to arise.

Who finds a skull attractive? For me, a skull also has the added perception as a symbol of death, so mindfulness of death is thrown in with the bargain.

From the Cambodian Genocide:

[manas]

Yes I have 3 and I think I know where this is going. I don't want you to get the wrong idea I treat women very well I'm very respectful and nice. It's just the lust driving me crazy. I work in retail right now so I'm around women like 90% of the time and on the outside I try to be the nicest I can be to women but on the inside I feel like I'm being torched by a fire

fgs man get yourself a girlfriend! This 'being touched by a fire' feeling is normal and healthy for a young guy, and as you are not a monk or about to become one, just face reality: you don't sound ready for celibacy, to me. In fact you might do yourself emotional damage if you artificially try to repress such a strong urge at this time, and impose celibacy on yourself when it is clearly the wrong time for it. Just find someone that you do like talking to, spending time with, meditating with etc. 'A nice Buddhist girl' as was said earlier, if that helps.

[Coyote]

ihrjordan,

If you are focusing exclusively on mindfulness or vipassana meditation you might find it helpful to try samatha meditation as well, as I find this tends to have a cooling effect on defilement like lust and anger, especially if done habitually.

I like this approach, although there are others available:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/inmind.html

[ihrjordan]

Yes I have 3 and I think I know where this is going. I don't want you to get the wrong idea I treat women very well I'm very respectful and nice. It's just the lust driving me crazy. I work in retail right now so I'm around women like 90% of the time and on the outside I try to be the nicest I can be to women but on the inside I feel like I'm being torched by a fire

fgs man get yourself a girlfriend! This 'being touched by a fire' feeling is normal and healthy for a young guy, and as you are not a monk or about to become one, just face reality: you don't sound ready for celibacy, to me. In fact you might do yourself emotional damage if you artificially try to repress such a strong urge at this time, and impose celibacy on yourself when it is clearly the wrong time for it. Just find someone that you do like talking to, spending time with, meditating with etc. 'A nice Buddhist girl' as was said earlier, if that helps.

When using the mahasi method you do SEE it arise a lot more and it can become overwhelming. Poke fun all you want, I know what I'm experiencing.

[manas]

When using the mahasi method you do SEE it arise a lot more and it can become overwhelming. Poke fun all you want, I know what I'm experiencing.

Hi jordan,

I promise you, I was not poking fun at your post/s, and I'm sorry you interpreted my last post in that way. Maybe it's not you as such that aroused my momentary frustration, but just the endless tirade of folks coming here trying to 'eradicate' or otherwise go to war with a perfectly natural and healthy desire that, especially in younger folks, ought to be explored in most cases, unless one is already quite spiritually advanced (from lifetimes of previous work, perhaps). But for most of us, trying to 'cope' with lust by fighting and suppressing it does, in most cases, more harm than if folks just learned a bit of self-acceptance, were more humble about where they were at in their spiritual journey, and just opted for moderation in sex instead, as well as making sex about more than just physical pleasure - ie, by having an actual relationship. Anyway, I've said all I can, I wish you well and I'm sorry if I caused offense - I didn't mean to.
'
'kind regards
manas

[rgb1]

The most important thing is our reaction ihrjordan. The initial lust arises and ceases quicky, but then there is all the thinking about and identifying with the lust, the physical reactions resulting from the lust and the disliking of the reactions, wanting them to go away. It is important to be aware of all these things. The more you become aware of them, their hold over you becomes less and less.

[Mkoll]

The most important thing is our reaction ihrjordan. The initial lust arises and ceases quicky, but then there is all the thinking about and identifying with the lust, the physical reactions resulting from the lust and the disliking of the reactions, wanting them to go away. It is important to be aware of all these things. The more you become aware of them, their hold over you becomes less and less.

That is a good point. It's easy to slap a label on a series of events but doing so can lead to missing the finer details and progression of those events. This is seen in mundane life as well --- take global warming for example.