Lust

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Re: Lust

Postby ihrjordan » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:13 am

:candle:
Last edited by ihrjordan on Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
User avatar
ihrjordan
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:42 am

Re: Lust

Postby culaavuso » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:29 am

ihrjordan wrote:And on that note does anybody know of a monastery somewhere on the east coast of the united states that's currently open for ordination?


It might be helpful to read about the experience of ordination at the Bhāvanā Society in West Virginia.
culaavuso
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Lust

Postby pegembara » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:49 am

Lust is not easily uprooted. One who has truly done so is likely to be a non-returner who has uprooted greed/desire in the 5 senses ie. rupa realm. I have always wondered why thoughts and fantasies are not included as the sixth.

There are five types of sense objects that overpower the mind of (most) human beings more than any others.

I do not know, bhikkhus, of a form that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the form of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a sound that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the sound of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of an odor that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the odor of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a taste that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the taste of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a touch that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the touch of a woman.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 1-001.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
pegembara
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:01 am

pegembara wrote:Lust is not easily uprooted. One who has truly done so is likely to be a non-returner who has uprooted greed/desire in the 5 senses ie. rupa realm. I have always wondered why thoughts and fantasies are not included as the sixth.

There are five types of sense objects that overpower the mind of (most) human beings more than any others.

I do not know, bhikkhus, of a form that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the form of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a sound that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the sound of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of an odor that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the odor of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a taste that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the taste of a woman.
I do not know, bhikkhus, of a touch that overpowers the mind of a man as much as, bhikkhus, the touch of a woman.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 1-001.html


If I may be so bold, it is an important distinction to point out that the Buddha here, is not holding women responsible for being as they are, and therefore causing the distractions to the monks: It is the monks, who, in lustful weakness, focus on the attraction of women, and the effect of their own clinging to lustful thoughts.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
 
Posts: 1490
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: Lust

Postby santa100 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:49 pm

pegembara wrote:I have always wondered why thoughts and fantasies are not included as the sixth.

Maybe because abstract mind-objects like math concepts or philosophical ideas can obsess the mind purely thru the mind-door but in order for a particular woman/man (including thoughts/fantasies about her/him) to "obsess" the mind of another man/woman, at least one has to see their physical attributes first(form, smell, taste..). Obviously if their "form" isn't very desirable, then there's nothing to "obsess" the other's mind..
santa100
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Lust

Postby Buddhistboy » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:38 pm

I have already posted this in a different thread but I think the same response suits here also.

Please read the following carefully. This is a theoretical answer.

Lust is a defilement of the mind which has a powerful magnetic potential to deviate one from the path. Most people including myself are affected by this. Im also trying to find a way out. So far this is most of what I know.

There are 2 types of meditations recommended by the Buddha to 'dissolve and neutralise' lust.

1) Meditation / Reflections on Repulsiveness (Patikulamanasikara) - This is the meditation where the mind focuses on the different parts / impurities within the body. Here is the Wikipedia article if you are interested in reading about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asubha and around the end of the webpage there are references which should contain more information.

2) Cemetery Contemplations (Marananussati) - also known as 'Recollection of Death'. This is the second type of meditation. Here is the link from Dhamma Wiki http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Marananussati

The two types of meditation are known as 'Meditation on the Foul' (Asubha Bhavana).

It is recommended that one practices Mindfulness meditation prior to engaging in the 2 practices mentioned above so that the reflections on the foul can be done with maximum possible mindfulness.

Also Ajahn Chah (as well as many other Buddhist monks who taught meditation) had suggested that when such feelings arise in oneself, try not to forcefully eliminate those thoughts, but instead just observe the mind. Observe, observe and observe instead of acting upon this. This is because all thoughts that arise in our mind are temporary and it should be 'let go of' with mindfulness rather than forceful elimination. If one relies on elimination then the feelings of lust will bounce back and arise when one's elimination mechanisms (defenses) are down.

Ajahn Chah also mentioned that the defilements in one's mind (which includes lust) is like a raging untamed tiger. Use the 'cage of mindfulness' to trap the tiger first. Second, stop feeding the tiger. Then the tiger will become weaker and weaker and eventually die. Likewise the practice and its results are gradual. Use mindfulness to be aware of the lust that arise in your mind. Next stop feeding this and slowly let go of this. Observe the mind.

There is also another useful aspect of Buddhanussati (Recollection on the qualities of Buddha). I am not going to explain all of this type of meditation as it is not entirely relevant to the discussion. The Buddhanussati is usually incorporated as a form of meditation but in addition to this, one can also also reflect on the qualities of the Buddha in day-to-day life. Whenever defilements arise in our minds we can always use the Buddhanussati to remind ourselves the state of our defilement and appreciate how the Buddha was free from that. We all know that the Buddha was free from defilements (including lust). Whenever I have feelings of lust I try to think like this - 'I accept that I have lust, I am affected by it, but the Buddha was free from that'. It is an acceptance that I still have to travel The Path yet there is someone who I can look up to who is the Buddha who had traveled The Path.

Remember that all these Enlightened beings which we admire today, at one point in there lives (or previous lives) they were nothing more than what we are now. They managed to escape from their defilements because they put the hard work into traveling The Path. If it was possible for them, then it is possible for us too, provided we put that same (or bigger) effort into traveling The 8-Fold Path. Its just an encouraging thought that we too can overcome our lust like they did.

These are just a few techniques which I am planning to use. Some may need to use all the techniques while others may overcome lust with just one method.

For example asthma is a disease of the airway. There are many medications available to treat the asthma. Asthma also comes in various forms from mild to moderate to severe. Some may relieve their asthma with just one drug, but some may need several different drugs to keep the asthma under control. Unfortunately there could be a few who's asthma wont be controlled despite even getting treated with all the drugs. This is the same with lust. Our lusts comes in different shapes and sizes. Some are more affected by it than others. Being mindful of the present moment may suffice for some, while there can also be people who will still find it difficult to keep lust under control despite practicing all the different mechanisms to control it. We should not be discouraged, we should all try for the best as practice can take time to bear results like a sapling growing into a massive tree. It all requires time, patience and endurance.
'Buddhistboy' is my username, even though I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not a boy. I am an adult.
User avatar
Buddhistboy
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:19 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lust

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:25 pm

Once or maybe twice a year, I am 'visited' by lustful thoughts.
They rarely last more than about ten minutes.

Otherwise, I am unaffected, and the predicament never crosses my mind.
And it is nothing to do with age or circumstance.
it is to do with experience and practice.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
 
Posts: 1490
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: Lust

Postby jan fessel » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:44 pm

Advice to Rahula.

(Short form).

"Renouncing the five pleasures of sense that entrance and delight the mind, and in faith departing from home, become one who makes an end of suffering!

"Associate with good friends and choose a remote lodging, secluded, with little noise. Be moderate in eating. Robes, alms-food, remedies and a dwelling — do not have craving for these things; do not be one who returns to the world. [1] Practice restraint according to the Discipline, [2] and control the five sense-faculties.

"Practice mindfulness of the body and continually develop dispassion (towards it). Avoid the sign of the beautiful connected with passion; by meditating on the foul [3] cultivate a mind that is concentrated and collected.

"Meditate on the Signless [4] and get rid of the tendency to conceit. By thoroughly understanding and destroying conceit [5] you will live in the (highest) peace."

In this manner the Lord repeatedly exhorted the Venerable Rahula.

Notes

1.
By being dragged back to it again by your craving for these things (Comy).
2.
The Vinaya, or disciplinary code of the community of Bhikkhus.
3.
The "foul," or asubha-kammatthana, refers to the practice of contemplating a corpse in various stages of decay and the contemplation on the thirty-two parts of the body, as a means of developing detachment from body and dispassion in regard to its beautiful (or, "the sign of the beautiful," subha-nimitta).
4.
The Signless (animitta) is one of the three Deliverances (vimokkha) by which beings are liberated from the world. The other two are Desirelessness (appanihita) and Emptiness (sunnata). The Signless is connected with the idea of impermanence of all conditioned things (cf. Visuddhi Magga, XXI 67f).
5.
The word "mana" means both conceit and misconceiving.

Translated from the Pali by
John D. Ireland

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html
jan fessel
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:24 am

Re: Lust

Postby jan fessel » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:55 pm

BONDAGE.

For as long as the slightest brushwood (of the passions)
of man towards women is not cut down,
so long is his mind in bondage,
like the milch calf to its mother-cow.

Yāvaṃ hi vanatho na chijjati –
anumatto'pi narassa nārisu
Paṭibaddha mano va tāva so –
vaccho khīrapako' va mātari.
(~ Dhammapada Verse 284)
jan fessel
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:24 am

Re: Lust

Postby jan fessel » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Since worldly "love" may be a part of lust, I post a few words on how I view "love" here.

The illusion of Love.

Love between man and woman in general, is an ego-based barter, where each party contributes with, what the other party needs.

When the parties basic selfish needs in this way is covered, they say that they " Love each others".

Since true love is a selfless size, it goes without saying that the above "normal" love is illusory love.

IIlusory because we see it as being true love.

Illusory because true love is unconditional and the above mentioned love is a very conditional affair.

"Love" between parents and children is also ego-based, since we "love" the child because it is OUR child.

We can also adopt a child and "love" it, but then it is because it emotionally, has become OUR child.

And our children "love" of course their parents the same way, because we are THEIR parents.

Ego-based attacment all the way around.

We dont see "love" realistic, but paint instead a pink, romantic picture, that we bond very strongly to and suffer all sorts of agonizing emotions over when we must recognize that it do not correspond with reality.

Life offers us humans, besides joys, a lot of problems and pain.

Most of all, it is the illusion of "true love" and our own feelings, that hurts.

On top of this, we are even willing to hurt others to take their partner and "love" from them, stealing their (momentary) happiness, or even worse, let children lose their father or mother, so we can acquire us this illusory "love"

And even when we are among the "lucky", where the illusion seems to fit with reality,at the moment, it is just a short respite before the nature of this world turns and we lose our loved ones, or they lose us.

The forecast is certain, death is sure, the more we "love", the more we will, sooner or later, suffer.

This life or future livetimes.

If we look only at the "roses" beauty and not the thorns, we will one day stand with torn fingers and empty hands.

If we understand the true nature of the "rose", we will deal realistically with it and not cultivating romantic illusions, and then we will no longer suffer from the absence of this "true Love", and will not be willing to harm others to achieve this.

There can be very strong bond between man and woman that feels like true and absolutely love, that consists despite all hardships in this life and here it is logically from a Buddhist point of view, to assume that it is a case of old love (kamma) from others life, now flaring up again at the meeting with a karmic appropriate object.

Ultimately, however, it is still ourselves we "love" most of all.

True love can only be found within ourselves and can be experienced as a very powerfull force, much larger than general selfish attachment and desire.

True love is giving, where general "love" between man and women is demanding.

True love frees, where general "love" binds.

One of our major tasks of life, lies in realizing that there is a body "some-body" outside ourselves that seen in the big picture is really worth to bind to.

The illusion of happiness to be found "out there" and not in our own hearts is a blind desire that enslaves us life after life.

In general "love" between man and women can be said to be a misguided quest for one's own inner whole.

To seek in the outer world is the child's instinctive and necessary for survival, attempt to cover basic needs.

The adult will at best achieve a recognition that truly sustainable "satisfaction", is peace .

And then the quest for external satisfaction, will be abandoned.
jan fessel
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:24 am

Previous

Return to Ethical Conduct

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests