Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

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Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:05 am

Hello,

what do you think about can a buddhist listening metal and goth music? i listened these music for 6 years, but after this period i tried leaved these since i felt these music as evil, dark, and hellish. i asked a teacher about it. he told that who listen these music such person will reborn in hell. :( :| so i stopped these music and i hope that if i live right, if i keep the 5 rules, if i meditate daily, if i will reach higher meditation levels, if i will avoid from these music and goth style then i will don't reborn in hell, i hope that i will born as a human and i will can continue my buddhist Path. .... there are persons who practice buddhism and listen metal and goth music. what do you think about it?
Last edited by wolf1 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:15 am

It's just another form of noise. It doesn't matter what type it is; classical, jazz, funk, pop, rock, swing.... All just noise. Do what you find comfortable and conducive to a pleasing mental state, and don't do, what doesn't. Simple. No need to overly complicate things, give meanings to certain things, say it's bad, evil, a hell-realm bringer.... It's just noise. My Zen Martial Arts Instructor listens to Lynyrd Skynyrd. A lot. He is one of the calmest most meditative guys I know... How it affects you is what you permit to happen.
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You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:22 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:It's just another form of noise. It doesn't matter what type it is; classical, jazz, funk, pop, rock, swing.... All just noise. Do what you find comfortable and conducive to a pleasing mental state, and don't do, what doesn't. Simple. No need to overly complicate things, give meanings to certain things, say it's bad, evil, a hell-realm bringer.... It's just noise. My Zen Martial Arts Instructor listens to Lynyrd Skynyrd. A lot. He is one of the calmest most meditative guys I know... How it affects you is what you permit to happen.


how it affects - a lot of metal and goth music listeners like darkness, loneliness, and et cetera which is near to imagine hell places. they have dark thoughts since the lyrics of the music makes dark thoughts. then they start to give power to born in hell since they like the darkness, like the dark places, like the dark lyrics. more bad: a lot of metal and goth music listeners become black magician.
not all metal lyrics are dark but a many...
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:34 am

I don't think it's much worse than listening to other genres of music. I don't buy what that teacher says about going to hell because you listen to metal music. Music-wise, you don't have much choice in what you enjoy listening to.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:58 am

Mkoll wrote:I don't think it's much worse than listening to other genres of music. I don't buy what that teacher says about going to hell because you listen to metal music. Music-wise, you don't have much choice in what you enjoy listening to.


the problem is not "i just listen to metal and goth music" the problem is a many persons interested in demons pictures, death pictures, and use these as symbols, symbols on shirts, they enjoy these dark symbols, dark lyrics of music, they enjoy darkness, horror movies and similar things. so it seems that they open their heart to the evil side.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:48 pm

wolf1 wrote:...the problem is not "i just listen to metal and goth music" the problem is a many persons interested in demons pictures, death pictures, and use these as symbols, symbols on shirts, they enjoy these dark symbols, dark lyrics of music, they enjoy darkness, horror movies and similar things. so it seems that they open their heart to the evil side.


Do you do that?
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby robertk » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:19 pm

Sabbath bloody sabbath,

Nothing more to do
Living just for dying
Dying just for you

Hey ozzy is cool :smile:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:24 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
wolf1 wrote:...the problem is not "i just listen to metal and goth music" the problem is a many persons interested in demons pictures, death pictures, and use these as symbols, symbols on shirts, they enjoy these dark symbols, dark lyrics of music, they enjoy darkness, horror movies and similar things. so it seems that they open their heart to the evil side.


Do you do that?


i did, yes. i did for 6 years. and once i used black magic. after this bad action i thought i don't want to be evil, and i was sorry for my action. i wanted just love darkness and symbols. i did these before i started meditation. and sometimes i want do these things again, i want listen such music. then i notice: "past will not help. return to the present state."
it seems i will go to hell if i can not reach Stream Entry in this life. and if i will not reach Stream Entry in this life then i will not born to be human again and then i will lose Dhamma. can i ask what is "Faith Follower"? and "Dhamma Follower?" how can i become a Faith Follower or a Dhamma Follower? if i become these then i will don't lose the Dhamma? can i will become human and continue the practice? Can Faith Follower and Dhamma Follower help?

FROM: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
SN 25.1
PTS: S iii 225
CDB i 1004
Cakkhu Sutta: The Eye
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004

At Savatthi. "Monks, the eye is inconstant, changeable, alterable. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The mind is inconstant, changeable, alterable.

"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:03 pm

I agree that music is music. Any style will show its ability to be a distraction. But if it makes you feel any better I am still a fan of many aggressive style of music, especially early 90's black metal which is notoriously horrid. It is up to you whether or not you can listen without taking the themes too seriously. If you can't than I recommend taking a break for a while. Come to think of it, I stopped listening to metal for the better part of two years when I began practicing. I can handle it now, but I am finding too much of any type of music causes days of echoing ("playing in my head") and that can become a distraction.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Anagarika » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:47 pm

For a layperson, music is not proscribed, and it seems to me it comes down to the types of messages that you want to fill your brain with, and your ability to listen to metal, for example, and maintain a balanced meditative mind.

One perspective is to look at the 8, 10 and Bhikkhu/Bhikkhuni precepts, and appreciate that the Buddha enjoined the monks from participating in "entertainments," and other mundane worldly sense pleasures.

7. Do not dance, sing, play or listen to music, watch shows, wear garlands, adornments,
scents or cosmetics.
(nacca gita vadita visuka dassana mala gandha vilepana dharana mandana vibhusanatthana veramani
sikkhapadam samadiyami).

In general this rule prohibits chasing after sensory enjoyments. Credit: jwleaf.org

The training rules suggest that one should displace worldly sense pleasures and cultivate jhana, and the non-mundane states that accompany jhaha and other meditations. If someone wanted to more fully embrace the path of renunciation and training, and trusted the training rules set forth by the Buddha, then one would forgo listening to any types of music. I recall Thanissaro Bhikkhu in an interview stating that he was a huge classical music fan before ordaining. Bhikkhu Bodhi is/was apparently a huge jazz aficionado, and commented on a temple fundraising program that featured a jazz performance. My guess, without knowing more, is that the Bhuddha, in setting forth the training rules, was making an effort to direct the monks away from the base forms of entertainments that popped up in north Indian society. Whether a beautiful piece of Bach, or Hoagy Carmichael, or even Judas Priest, takes us off the path is a question each person must answer for themselves, it seems to me. I've disabled the radio in my car, and don't intentionally listen to music. I admit I miss a lot of it. But, I undertook the training rule, and find that there was logic and reason in the Buddha's rules.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:55 pm

I don't think anyone can say where you'll be reborn, particularly if using the music you listen to is the basis.

I think anyone starting out in meditation practice will find this kind of music abrasive and unpleasant, I found even much milder forms of music didn't go well with a life dedicated to meditation and I didn't have much interest in music until 18 years later.

If you do decide to listen to it watch what affect it has on the mind, watch how it makes you feel, decide for yourself if it's worth it.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:07 pm

wolf1 wrote:i did, yes. i did for 6 years. and once i used black magic. after this bad action i thought i don't want to be evil, and i was sorry for my action. i wanted just love darkness and symbols. i did these before i started meditation. and sometimes i want do these things again, i want listen such music. then i notice: "past will not help. return to the present state."
it seems i will go to hell if i can not reach Stream Entry in this life. and if i will not reach Stream Entry in this life then i will not born to be human again and then i will lose Dhamma. can i ask what is "Faith Follower"? and "Dhamma Follower?" how can i become a Faith Follower or a Dhamma Follower? if i become these then i will don't lose the Dhamma? can i will become human and continue the practice? Can Faith Follower and Dhamma Follower help?

I'm sure being a faith or Dhamma follower will help. And I'm sure the method of how to attain that is the same method as how to attain other spiritual accomplishments: diligent and correct practice. It seems that you'd be better serving yourself if you dwell less on the past and more on the practice now, especially given how worried you seem to be.
Peace,
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:23 pm

To wean yourself off of such harsh music, just listen to something better. There are many types of music that are less abrasive than metal and goth.

While watching a documentary about Richard Feynman I learnt about Mongolian Throat singing.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SarathW » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:45 pm

I used to listen to music for more than 50 years.
I used to like loud heavy metal music in full blast using my 7.1 sound system.
Michael Jackson said any note is a musical note.
With that note I would say any talk is musical.
Specially woman's voice to a man and visa vasa.
Even Sutta chanting is musical.
What really matters is the attachment and aversion to music.
Specially the right speech is important.
Now days I do not listen music at all not even the news or radio.
Silence is the music to my years.
What musical note is that?

:thinking:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby thepea » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:24 pm

SarathW wrote:Silence is the music to my years.
What musical note is that?

A rest.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Ben » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:38 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:To wean yourself off of such harsh music, just listen to something better. There are many types of music that are less abrasive than metal and goth.

While watching a documentary about Richard Feynman I learnt about Mongolian Throat singing.


Throat singing is very cool, as is the documentary on Richard Feynman.
I agree with Bhante with regards to listening to something less abrasive. You may also find that over time and continued practice that you will be inclined towards quiet.
Kind regards,
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SarathW » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:24 pm

thepea wrote:
SarathW wrote:Silence is the music to my years.
What musical note is that?

A rest.


:clap:
:)
Any one who does not know about the "rest" in music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_(music)
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:49 am

Mkoll wrote: Music-wise, you don't have much choice in what you enjoy listening to.

As a music teacher I have to disagree. Appreciation and enjoyment of particular styles of music is learned, usually informally but still learned. Most people like what they know - and that's the way it works, not 'know what they like'.
If anyone wants to get to enjoy other kinds of music from what they know, they can just expand the boundaries of what they listen to and follow their ears.
Techno to trance to Philip Glass? Sure.
Country and Western to blues to jazz? Sure.
Just don't expect to jump straight from death metal to medieval motets and understand them straight away.

:namaste:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:15 am

Mkoll wrote:
wolf1 wrote:i did, yes. i did for 6 years. and once i used black magic. after this bad action i thought i don't want to be evil, and i was sorry for my action. i wanted just love darkness and symbols. i did these before i started meditation. and sometimes i want do these things again, i want listen such music. then i notice: "past will not help. return to the present state."
it seems i will go to hell if i can not reach Stream Entry in this life. and if i will not reach Stream Entry in this life then i will not born to be human again and then i will lose Dhamma. can i ask what is "Faith Follower"? and "Dhamma Follower?" how can i become a Faith Follower or a Dhamma Follower? if i become these then i will don't lose the Dhamma? can i will become human and continue the practice? Can Faith Follower and Dhamma Follower help?

FROM: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
SN 25.1
PTS: S iii 225
CDB i 1004
Cakkhu Sutta: The Eye
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004

At Savatthi. "Monks, the eye is inconstant, changeable, alterable. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The mind is inconstant, changeable, alterable.

"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."


I'm sure being a faith or Dhamma follower will help. And I'm sure the method of how to attain that is the same method as how to attain other spiritual accomplishments: diligent and correct practice. It seems that you'd be better serving yourself if you dwell less on the past and more on the practice now, especially given how worried you seem to be.


BUT WHAT IS DHAMMA FOLLOWER AND FAITH FOLLOWER? CAN ANYBODY DETAILS IT? PLEASE.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby culaavuso » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:46 am

wolf1 wrote:BUT WHAT IS DHAMMA FOLLOWER AND FAITH FOLLOWER? CAN ANYBODY DETAILS IT? PLEASE.


There is some discussion of this in SN 55.24

SN 55.24: Sarakāni Sutta wrote:Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But perhaps he has these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. And the things proclaimed by the Tathaagata are moderately approved by him with insight. That man does not go to the realm of hungry ghosts, to the downfall, to the evil way, to states of woe.

Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathaagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe.
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