Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Mkoll
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:57 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Mkoll wrote: Music-wise, you don't have much choice in what you enjoy listening to.

As a music teacher I have to disagree. Appreciation and enjoyment of particular styles of music is learned, usually informally but still learned. Most people like what they know - and that's the way it works, not 'know what they like'.
If anyone wants to get to enjoy other kinds of music from what they know, they can just expand the boundaries of what they listen to and follow their ears.
Techno to trance to Philip Glass? Sure.
Country and Western to blues to jazz? Sure.
Just don't expect to jump straight from death metal to medieval motets and understand them straight away.

:namaste:
Kim

Well that'se true if someone has a willingness to experiment with new genres and they find the right stuff for them. I would also differentiate between appreciation and enjoyment. I appreciate much much music than I enjoy, let's put it that way.

There are certain genres that I know I will never like, like gabber for example. And I'm sure most people have certain styles of music that they just cannot get into.
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James

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:26 am

Mkoll wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:
Mkoll wrote: Music-wise, you don't have much choice in what you enjoy listening to.

As a music teacher I have to disagree. Appreciation and enjoyment of particular styles of music is learned, usually informally but still learned. Most people like what they know - and that's the way it works, not 'know what they like'.
If anyone wants to get to enjoy other kinds of music from what they know, they can just expand the boundaries of what they listen to and follow their ears.
Techno to trance to Philip Glass? Sure.
Country and Western to blues to jazz? Sure.
Just don't expect to jump straight from death metal to medieval motets and understand them straight away.

:namaste:
Kim

Well that'se true if someone has a willingness to experiment with new genres and they find the right stuff for them. I would also differentiate between appreciation and enjoyment. I appreciate much much music than I enjoy, let's put it that way.

There are certain genres that I know I will never like, like gabber for example. And I'm sure most people have certain styles of music that they just cannot get into.

Gabber doesn't sound like my kind of music either but I think "cannot get into" is really "refuse to get into" or "will never want to get into". Given enough encouragement (it often takes an attractive person of the opposite sex :smile: ) I believe nearly anyone can learn to like nearly any music.
But this is all OT. Let's leave it at that.

:namaste:
Kim
:focus:

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:18 am

Kim OHara wrote:......
Gabber doesn't sound like my kind of music either but I think "cannot get into" is really "refuse to get into" or "will never want to get into". Given enough encouragement (it often takes an attractive person of the opposite sex :smile: ) I believe nearly anyone can learn to like nearly any music.


Not if, like me you actually suffer from Hyperacusis. It's bordering on Misophonia.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:35 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:......
Gabber doesn't sound like my kind of music either but I think "cannot get into" is really "refuse to get into" or "will never want to get into". Given enough encouragement (it often takes an attractive person of the opposite sex :smile: ) I believe nearly anyone can learn to like nearly any music.


Not if, like me you actually suffer from Hyperacusis. It's bordering on Misophonia.

You have my sympathy but I did say nearly everyone ... and I did say :focus: too.
Or has the OP already received a good-enough answer to the question?

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Kim

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:55 am

I don't know; that would be up to the OP. But I suppose it's one reason as to why some people can listen to certain types of music, and others cannot. And constant exposure to music of the specific genre the OP has referred to, is also conducive to harming the hearing.... I'm wondering whether the OP has any associated problems which may be connected to such an activity? Further good reason to refrain....
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:02 pm

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

culaavuso wrote:
wolf1 wrote:BUT WHAT IS DHAMMA FOLLOWER AND FAITH FOLLOWER? CAN ANYBODY DETAILS IT? PLEASE.


There is some discussion of this in SN 55.24

SN 55.24: Sarakāni Sutta wrote:Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But perhaps he has these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. And the things proclaimed by the Tathaagata are moderately approved by him with insight. That man does not go to the realm of hungry ghosts, to the downfall, to the evil way, to states of woe.

Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathaagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:42 pm

There certainly is a difference between noise and music. Jazz, of instance, opens the brain to new pathways of perception and frees the spirit to soar. Appreciating it is a lifelong learning experience which reveals new dimensions as one grows more aware.

Metal or Goth? Might as well just go out to a construction site and put my ear up to the jackhammer. Or sit by the side of the highway, listening to big trucks lumbering by as they spew diesel smoke.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Well, since the OP seems satisfied that their question has been answered, I'll continue contributing to this OT discussion.

~~~

alan wrote:There certainly is a difference between noise and music. Jazz, of instance, opens the brain to new pathways of perception and frees the spirit to soar. Appreciating it is a lifelong learning experience which reveals new dimensions as one grows more aware.

Metal or Goth? Might as well just go out to a construction site and put my ear up to the jackhammer. Or sit by the side of the highway, listening to big trucks lumbering by as they spew diesel smoke.

All I'm hearing is that you don't like metal and goth and you never will. That's fine. But it's still music and being snobbish about it isn't going to change that fact. Even noise can be music.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:53 pm

Then you're not listening.
Show me how noise is beneficial.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 pm

In the suttas we often encounter a group talking nonsense, blathering on. The Buddha always admonishes them.
Is he being a snob?
I would say no, he's justly advising against foolish noise. What is noise? That which does not produce beneficial results or add to the quality of your mind.
What adds to the quality of your mind? That which increases awareness, that which cleanses, that which inspires.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:55 pm

alan wrote:In the suttas we often encounter a group talking nonsense, blathering on. The Buddha always admonishes them.
Is he being a snob?
I would say no, he's justly advising against foolish noise. What is noise? That which does not produce beneficial results or add to the quality of your mind.
What adds to the quality of your mind? That which increases awareness, that which cleanses, that which inspires.

False analogy. We're not talking about the Buddha's teaching right now. We're talking about music.

You're saying that since you don't like to listen to goth or metal music, therefore goth and metal music aren't music.
It's like saying since I don't like to eat oatmeal or raisins, therefore oatmeal and raisins aren't foods.

And for the record, oatmeal and raisins are great; I'm just using them as examples.
Peace,
James

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:17 am

Thought it was a decent analogy, but let's put that aside for now. Question is: what do you want to feed your mind?

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:20 am

Clearly, hoping you would see that goth and metal are valid forms of music was a bad idea. I'll exit this debate with a final word from Wikipedia.

Wikipedia: Heavy Metal Music wrote:Heavy metal (or simply metal) is a genre of rock music[1] that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s, largely in the United Kingdom and the United States.

Wikipedia: Gothic Rock wrote:Gothic rock (also referred to as goth rock or simply goth) is a musical subgenre of post-punk and alternative rock that formed during the late 1970s.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:25 am

And worthless noise is a subcategory of other forms of noise, all of which do not contribute to peace of mind, which is why I avoid them.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:48 am

What is beautiful music? Charlie Parker riffing on a melody, taking it to the sublime. Or maybe, if you're not a Jazz cat, a singer-song-writer expressing emotion. Maybe it's a pop band coming up with new melodies.
No matter what your preference, there is no doubt that some sounds elevate, and others do not. Music, like all other art forms, is at it's best when it aims high.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 am

Mkoll wrote:
alan wrote:In the suttas we often encounter a group talking nonsense, blathering on. The Buddha always admonishes them.
Is he being a snob?
I would say no, he's justly advising against foolish noise. What is noise? That which does not produce beneficial results or add to the quality of your mind.
What adds to the quality of your mind? That which increases awareness, that which cleanses, that which inspires.

False analogy. We're not talking about the Buddha's teaching right now. We're talking about music.

You're saying that since you don't like to listen to goth or metal music, therefore goth and metal music aren't music.
It's like saying since I don't like to eat oatmeal or raisins, therefore oatmeal and raisins aren't foods.

And for the record, oatmeal and raisins are great; I'm just using them as examples.

You're right, Mkoll, at least in grammatical terms, but Alan does have a good point: we advised not to waste our time on foolish occupations or idle speech and IMO that applies to rubbishy music as well.
However, what music is thought to be rubbishy and what isn't varies wildly from one person to another.
I would argue that music which is deliberately ugly or deliberately stirs up ugly emotions (hate, violence, etc) is un-Buddhist and music which encourages calm, blissful thoughts or positive action is dhammically ideal. There's a lot of middle ground between those extremes, however, and whether (e.g.) Schubert is better than Coltrane seems to be merely a matter of taste and listening experience. I do agree with Alan's last post, though: Music is at its best when it aims high.

:juggling:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:11 am

Coltrane. Everyone should listen to Coltrane.
No, just kidding. Not everyone has the neurons aligned properly in their brain to dig his mojo.

You know, I often walk on the beach. During that time I encounter people listening to the radio, which strikes me as odd, since the loveliest sounds of all human time are available--waves. Waves coming in and out are so perfectly beautiful, sometimes I have to just sit there and let them wash in, and abide in the moment.
Until it's time to leave, and that moment is lost. The pointless noise begins again. Maybe that's why I don't like people in general. They interfere with my waves.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:16 am

alan wrote:Coltrane. Everyone should listen to Coltrane.

And Davis...

:anjali:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:24 am

Yes, him too. There is a world of brilliant Jazz out there to be discovered, and you'll never get tired of listening to it.

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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby thepea » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:35 am

alan wrote: Maybe that's why I don't like people in general. They interfere with my waves.


Perhaps you don't like people because you don't like yourself?


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