Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:25 pm

That 4'33" thing is fun as conceptual shtick*, the kind of thing I would have pulled in high school. But it ain't art.

There are 3 types of music. Which three? That which inspires contemplation and quietude, and is uplifting and inspiring. This is preferred by advanced people.
The next is general run of the mill shlock, that which is used by average people to fill the void in their brains--what you hear in supermarkets.
Third is noise masquerading as music, useful for drunk teenagers and those with unresolved violent tendencies, or emotionally underdeveloped types who can't feel unless their senses are assaulted.

*Exaggeration for effect is also a shtick, I admit freely. But it never fails to drive the point home.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Thank you so much for your posts in this thread, alan - particularly this last one. My wife and I were wondering why we still enjoy both metal and goth music, and now, thank goodness we know it is due to our unresolved violent tendencies and emotional underdevelopment. Just to think we were going to go the rest of our lives without knowing the reason why. Perhaps now we can both go get the help we need!




:roll:




No hard feelings...we both know we share a love of jazz. Funny how the OG's of the New Orleans and swing era said Parker's music sounded like noise and how Wynton thinks Cecil Taylor and the like were "barren". Funny. Quite funny.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SarathW » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:23 pm

alan wrote:That 4'33" thing is fun as conceptual shtick*, the kind of thing I would have pulled in high school. But it ain't art.

There are 3 types of music. Which three? That which inspires contemplation and quietude, and is uplifting and inspiring. This is preferred by advanced people.
The next is general run of the mill shlock, that which is used by average people to fill the void in their brains--what you hear in supermarkets.
Third is noise masquerading as music, useful for drunk teenagers and those with unresolved violent tendencies, or emotionally underdeveloped types who can't feel unless their senses are assaulted.

*Exaggeration for effect is also a shtick, I admit freely. But it never fails to drive the point home.

:goodpost:

As you know "A rest" is music as well.
Have you seen one of Michael Jacksons concerts?
He stood in the stage like a statue for about four minutes and did not move at all.
The audience went hysterical.
:)
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:23 pm

I wish you both the best--during the intensive therapy, and long recovery period necessary to get yourselves straightened out, and thinking along lines I prescribe.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:33 pm

I appreciate the well wishes, alan. I am sure it will be a long road. I just hope I can come to you for support along the way and be reminded of the destitute conditions I am trying to leave behind.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:04 am

That's what I'm here for. Begin your recovery with some classic Armstrong--not too much at first. May I suggest some West End Blues? It has all the necessary ingredients to help alleviate pain. Or, if that is not an option, bring the pain into artistic, high relief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W232OsTAMo8
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:33 am

The opening fanfare is all I need, alan. Greatest thing to EVER happen in music if you ask me. Chills every time. :D


Look, aggressive music comes in many forms and has an important place in the history of music. It is there any time a musician rejects the status quo. You can find it all throughout the history of classical music, jazz, electronic music, and in the avant-garde styles. Great punk and metal exploit the failures of "popular" music and of "popular" culture through a deliberate disrespect of everything it holds dear. The music itself is a deliberate, structured - and in some cases - a highly sophisticated, highly technical and insanely complex failure to be popular and approachable (cf.The Dillinger Escape Plan and Meshuggah) . Guitar distortion is a deliberate failure to present clean tones. Blast beats are a deliberate failure to keep an pleasant rhythm. The myriad of growls and high pitched vocal styles are a deliberate failure to be inviting. And in this attempt to reject popular music and culture, metal and punk have been tremendously successful in producing spectacular failures of "popular" music. It is so wonderfully against the grain, so wonderfully challenging and so wonderfully unappealing. But you know what? That is what it is there to do.

So I don't really disagree with alan or the others with similar opinions in this thread. The only difference is that I know why I am listening and I know what I am listening FOR. I am a fan of rebellion in every sense of the word and when it comes to music, metal and punk, done the way I like it, is pure rebellion.

But to bring this full circle I will reiterate what I wrote on page one: that every form of music will show its ability to be a distraction, no matter how sophisticated or pleasant it is, it will become a distraction on the path. So in the grand scheme Mozart is just as much a distraction as Mayhem.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:27 am

alan wrote:That 4'33" thing is fun as conceptual shtick*, the kind of thing I would have pulled in high school. But it ain't art.

There are 3 types of music. Which three? That which inspires contemplation and quietude, and is uplifting and inspiring. This is preferred by advanced people.
The next is general run of the mill shlock, that which is used by average people to fill the void in their brains--what you hear in supermarkets.
Third is noise masquerading as music, useful for drunk teenagers and those with unresolved violent tendencies, or emotionally underdeveloped types who can't feel unless their senses are assaulted.

*Exaggeration for effect is also a shtick, I admit freely. But it never fails to drive the point home.

There is one definition of "music snob" that is most liked on Urban Dictionary.

Urban Dictionary wrote:A person who believes s/he has a more refined taste in music and has much more knowledge in the field of music in general. Every song and genre is unacceptable unless the snob happens to like it, then it is absolute perfection. Music snobs feel obligated to enlighten everyone with unwelcome critiques and irrelivant musical trivia.


:twisted:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:36 am

:goodpost:

Quite. :roll:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby wolf1 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:35 pm

i think THESE ARE ALL MUSIC OF ANGER! :buddha1:

ANGER ON THE FACES, ANGER ON THE LYRICS

ANGER IN THE SHOUTING SINGING

ANGER

Image

ANGER
Image

ANGER
Image

ANGER
Image

ANGER
Image

ANGER

i think THESE ARE ALL MUSIC OF ANGER! :buddha1:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Aloka » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:01 pm

wolf1 wrote:i think THESE ARE ALL MUSIC OF ANGER!



I think its time for you to let it go now, wolf1. Maybe do some meditation practice instead ?

:anjali:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:04 pm

Aloka wrote:
wolf1 wrote:i think THESE ARE ALL MUSIC OF ANGER!



I think its time for you to let it go now, wolf1. Maybe do some meditation practice instead ?

:anjali:

Lol. Probably a good idea.

I think that wolf1's post was an angry post because of the capital letters, which come across as shouting to me. :stirthepot:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:04 pm

There is another definition of "music snob"--a title bestowed by those who don't have taste upon people who do. Usually a manifestation of insecurity.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:17 pm

is that a quote with a verifiable reference link, or are you just making it up as you go along, because you feel miffed...? :jumping:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:54 pm

The Blessed One (Louis Armstrong) shows us how to live. By holding that high C, he forgives past Kamma, and creates new, more positive realities to all who listen and understand. Intuitive musical genius and technical brilliance, expressed with sheer joy. He played out of compassion for future generations, so that they, too, might find the true path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUChrvmmH8k
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby Mkoll » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:31 am

alan wrote:There is another definition of "music snob"--a title bestowed by those who don't have taste upon people who do. Usually a manifestation of insecurity.

Here's another excerpt from another definition of "music snob" from Urban Dictionary.
Urban Dictionary wrote:In general, they hold the belief that their musical taste and their musical taste alone is relevant while anyone who has opposing or different opinions on music is considered stupid and won't hesitate to spew snotty remarks at you.

Gee, that sounds familiar... :roll:
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:39 am

alan wrote:The Blessed One (Louis Armstrong) shows us how to live. By holding that high C, he forgives past Kamma, and creates new, more positive realities to all who listen and understand. Intuitive musical genius and technical brilliance, expressed with sheer joy. He played out of compassion for future generations, so that they, too, might find the true path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUChrvmmH8k


My goodness, you can't beat that low fidelity. I have such an affinity for anything recorded before '40. I'll take the worst quality Ma Rainey recording over literally anything else ever.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby SDC » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:04 am

Was listening to Carcass on my ride home from work today - reminiscent of rides home from high school 15 years ago - that culturally rebellious teenager that was so desperate to avoid the mainstream and find something different. Early steps on my quest to find the dhamma.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby alan » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:15 am

It's good to be a rebellious teen. When you get older, new ideas emerge.
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Re: Practice Buddhism and listening metal and goth music

Postby bodom » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:52 am

A topic that's close to my heart :heart: My favorite music, and get this, I don't worship Satan or sacrifice children because of it! Gasp! Hard to believe I know! :tongue:

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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