Jealousy and Conceit

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Wizard in the Forest
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Jealousy and Conceit

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

I have returned from a long absence due to health reasons, but yaaay, back.

So I have been doing a lot of journaling after my meditations and I have found in addition to conceit, which is something I have struggled to control for a long time, I have within my mind latent jealousy and ill-will that I am having trouble eradicating when it comes into my mind unprompted. I have tried all of what has been said in the Vitakka-Santhana Sutta and have tried ignoring them when they come up and instead focus on something else that is more morally healthy and better for my mental well-being, and I have also tried recalling the drawbacks of having said thoughts. The fear of those thoughts merely filled me with feelings of shame and confusion which distracted me from my practice filling me with restlessness. So then I attempted to try and locate the thought formation and relax it, or question it. It was a fairly confusing experience, because day-to-day I didn't consciously think I was very jealous, but it has become fairly apparent that it is actually a problem I haven't been able to address sufficiently. After recentering on the breath I kept having the same kinds of problems that I had difficulty with before, so I thought of attempting to try and cultivate Mudita, but I am finding that there is very little in the suttas about how to cultivate mudita, and it seems to be more of an unprompted thing that cannot be cultivated, which of course fills me with more fear that I am hitting a block in my practice. I was hoping for a bit of advice on how to work out a solution to my struggles with the poisons of ill-will and greed, and perhaps maybe some of the helpful Bhantes and friends here can offer me their thoughts on the matter.
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SarathW
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by SarathW »

Are you familiar with ten fetters and how they are eradicated in four stages?
Are you observing five precepts?
Are you aware that Buddhist teaching is all about gradual training?
:thinking:
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Zom
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by Zom »

Are you aware that Buddhist teaching is all about gradual training?
Very important point, btw.

In general one can say there are 3 stages: 1) don't do bad 2) do good 3) purify your mind
People usually try to start directly with the 3rd stage, ignoring previous two. But first thing to do on buddhist path - is to abstrain from bad deeds. After you succeed, you start doing good things - helping others in this or that way, being generous. If you succeed in this, your delilements will reduce a lot - including both jealousy and conceit. And only after that you start to cleanse the mind with numerous meditation methods, including those in MN20.
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

SarathW wrote:Are you familiar with ten fetters and how they are eradicated in four stages?
Yes.
Are you observing five precepts?
No, I observe 8-10, most of the time. Sometimes I undertake other training rules the Buddha laid down in the Vinaya, but that is on Uposatha days.
Are you aware that Buddhist teaching is all about gradual training?
:thinking:
A Human birth is too precious and rare to waste any time born as one, so I practice with due diligence. This doesn't mean that I am unaware that these things take time and patience. The problem is I am generating a lot of unproductive thoughts such as fear and shame which in the case of wrong-doing is a great thing, keeps me from acting on the unwholesome mind states. However, in the face of what appears to be spontaneous jealousy I have uncovered in my practice, I am a bit stunted on what to do. The trouble is, consciously, I know all the drawbacks of jealousy, I think the cure is to cultivate mudita, but I am unsure how I can do that because Mudita is often unprompted and unsolicited. It arises when good things happen to other people. I have it when good things happen to people friendly to me, but clarity has arisen in me that I am insufficiently joyful at other people's successes, because to people I don't know, and to people I consider difficult, I find it difficult to feel mudita. Clearly there is underlying resentment underlying my daily distractions and inattention, and perhaps even worse there is underlying greed. I discovered in my meditations that I try to bury it with other distracting things, or that it was obscured from me by ignorance for a long time. Now that I know it is there, I am trying to figure out what to do with the mind states. I've added more attempts to control it, but my attempts at Pali formula are laughably bad, bad, bad, but I have added additional daily practice: reminders and precepts of my own, but not quite canonical to anything, but some I have recalled from the Cunda Sutta the Buddha's declarations, and used my own terrible pali formulae to try and abandon those unwholesome mind states by daily reciting the following along with my precepts:

Kathañca tividhaṃ manasā soceyyaṃ hoti?
And how does one become pure in mana in three ways?

Idha ekacco an-abhijjhālu hoti,
Here they are not abhijjhālu.

yaṃ taṃ parassa para-vitt·ūpakaraṇaṃ taṃ an-abhijjhitā hoti ‘aho vata yaṃ parassa taṃ mamassā’ti.
They are not one who covets the possessions or instruments of someone else: 'Oh verily, may that which belongs to another be mine!'

Etena saccavajjena loke abhijjhā·domanassa vinessati
By the declaration of this truth, I will give up covetousness and gloom towards the world

atho Nibbānasampatti iminā me samijjhatu!
and then the attainment of Nibbāna may I be successful in this!

Abyāpanna-citto hoti appaduṭṭha-mana-saṅkappo:
He is not byāpanna-citto, having faultless mana-saṅkappas and thinks:

‘ime sattā a-verā hontu a-byāpajjā, a-nīghā sukhī attānaṃ pariharantū’ti.
'May these beings be free from enmity, free from malevolence, without grief, may they look after themselves with happiness'.

Etena saccavajjena loke byāpanna-citto vinessati
By the declaration of this truth, I will give up malevolent thoughts towards the world

atho Nibbānasampatti iminā me samijjhatu!
and then the attainment of Nibbāna may I be successful in this!

But meditationwise I need a different approach, more than just a declaration to attempt to give up these bad mind states. I think I need a way to cultivate more mudita, so that I will be able to genuinely sear away the jealousy at the root.
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culaavuso
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by culaavuso »

Wizard in the Forest wrote:I have it when good things happen to people friendly to me, but clarity has arisen in me that I am insufficiently joyful at other people's successes, because to people I don't know, and to people I consider difficult, I find it difficult to feel mudita. Clearly there is underlying resentment underlying my daily distractions and inattention, and perhaps even worse there is underlying greed.
Practice of generosity may be helpful in these developments. Acting in a generous way to contribute to the happiness and success of people that you don't know or people you consider difficult seems to address the issue. If discomfort arises before, during, or after such actions it can be observed and worked through directly. These acts of generosity can then be used analogously to the practice of recollection of virtue, through which the thoughts of others' happiness may be a joyous recollection rather than a distressing one.
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

:goodpost:

I certainly gave that some thought many times before, and I had begun paritta practices for some of the people I have found to be difficult, along with regular metta, but since I don't handle money or trade often nor do I really own much of anything other than what is given to me, I have not much to give. On the other hand I could do more volunteer work which helps. I recall it did help at times cultivating mudita, but for me, once I know someone I find it is difficult for me to not place them in the category of 'friendly person' or 'difficult person'. Then it becomes back to the problem perhaps that I feel difficulty feeling mudita for difficult people.
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daverupa
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by daverupa »

There are no difficult people or friendly people; there are difficult or friendly behaviors that people express due to causes and conditions, choice being only one among them, and when considering the free play that pain and anguish has in the world, difficult behaviors are more likely to arise as a result of aversion or greed or ignorance, and none of these is salved by treating a person expressing them as 'being' them.

So, coming to place where their experience of un/pleasant feeling + papanca is how their behavior is seen, it can be a little bit easier to find an angle of approach that has space for patient sympathy.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Jealousy and Conceit

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

:anjali:

That is really good advice, if I change my point of reference it can help me much easier in my attempts to cultivate mudita toward them. What troubles me is that I have been distancing the emotion that arises from my aversion and greed toward the persons and labeling them as difficult. This is a bad idea, because they cannot help what they think or do as many of them like me struggle with hatred, ignorance, and greed like I do. It isn't fair that I consider them 'difficult persons' but of course admitting I have these feelings toward them is important because it allows me to be more careful in my conduct towards them. Eradicating the mindsets of jealousy and malice that arise however is something I really want to do though, so any bit of help will make a big difference to me.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir
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