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masturbation what's wrong? - Page 20 - Dhamma Wheel

masturbation what's wrong?

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby manas » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:43 am

Last edited by manas on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby manas » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:46 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Guinness
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Guinness » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:51 am

I've skipped some of the replies, so apologies if this has been covered..

Sex is for pro-creation exclusively. Thats it, dead simple.

With all due respect to the OP, but I really thought that is was an attempt at a wind up.

I think even the 'best' of us have sexual urges, but some real heavy duty thought needs to go into the suppression if we want to 'kill' those urges. Anyone can do it, I know that I can. I've been married for 20 years and live a few thousand miles away from my wife. I see her for a few weeks every few months, and in those few weeks, I get more out enjoying her as a person as opposed to thinking about the sex I haven't had since the last time I seen her - to the point, that if we want sex, we need to "pencil it in" and it may or may not happen. Is it unhealthy? No, not for us. We have a mutual bond: or true love you may say. Way beyond breaking the rules on pro-creation.

I have never had an urge to seek sexual 'fulfilment' away from my wife. Quite the opposite in fact, but I will not judge those that cannot.

Stillsitting
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Re: Overcoming passion

Postby Stillsitting » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:45 am

I am responding to the original post, even though it is more than a year old, because it is something that i am dealing with.

Although I have been meditating for many years, it is only recently that I have rededicated and recommitted myself to a regular practice of Vipassana mediation - twice a day, one hour a day, plus a practice of metta.

At the same time, I recently began to attend a weekly 12-step program for sexual addiction.

However, at a deep level the two practices - vipassana and the 12-steps - seem to be in conflict for me.

While Vipassana practice is just to observe with equanimity whatever arises, the 12 steps - particularly at the meetings - seems to be more about consciously digging up and even dwelling on the past.

For me, Vipassana is wonderful reality check and I feel that with a regular twice a day practice there is very little chance that I will engage in sexual misconduct. I am attending the 12-step meetings as a further guarantee. But now I wonder whether the 12-step meetings in fact keep my energy unduly focused on sex, sexual misconduct, etc. - rather than just letting this, and any other energy, naturally arise and fall away.

Tiltbillings replied to the original poster that what is needed is compassion. Compassion is a strong basis of my practice. However, much of the language of the 12-step program, and also of many of the attendees, seems to be of a self-berating nature, which I find to be deflating.

I'm wondering if other Vipassana practitioners have experience with 12-step programs, particularly for sex addiction, and what are your thoughts.

With metta

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Overcoming passion

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Overcoming passion

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:09 pm

All I can add to this is that Mahatma Ghandhi wrote that all his previous (failed) attempts at controlling lust eventually helped him in the long run to overcome it. Keep the faith! Keep exploring what this lust is all about, explore the nature of pleasant sensations- their transience, what it means at a mental level to be with a woman, the true nature of the body, the cost of an actual sexual encounter, materially, mentally, socially,and karmically, overcome low moods/boredom which leads to needing sex, developing metta all the time, seeing women as part of the family -other people's sister, daughter, mother etc. At the very least limit the damage and masturbate! Samatha can help. Vipassana can help! Precepts can help. Being busy can help. Exercise can help :broke:
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Stillsitting
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Re: Overcoming passion

Postby Stillsitting » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm


Stillsitting
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Overcoming passion

Postby Stillsitting » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:21 pm


rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Overcoming passion

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:25 pm

Stillsitting, another thing which might help is exploring how we identify (relate) ourselves as 'men' to her 'woman'. This fabrication sets the scene for further thoughts of a sensual nature. The vitakkasantana sutta techniques also help one you can identify lust. I suspect one of the biggest obstacles is at some level not being firmly resolved on not wanting sexual contact. I haven't beaten it myself, but on the path!

Wishing us good luck! :toast: ('frothy apple juice')

Metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Stillsitting
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Overcoming passion

Postby Stillsitting » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:08 pm


K.Dhamma
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Urges.

Postby K.Dhamma » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:37 am

Ok, so I am going to start working on a desire I feel needs to be addressed. We are human, but we still have urges of the sexual type. Abstaining from sex I don't have a problem with so much. However refraining from the "solo acts" has become extremely difficult. Sutta's? Practices I can use? My teacher is afs(away from sangha) for a bit and I just need something to get me started.

Things I have tried:

Restricting access to erotica.(tv, computer, magazines)
Meditation as substitute.
The 5 body part meditation.(hair, nails, skin, teeth)

Only insight I can come up with is complete renunciation.

Metta.
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah

Dennenappelmoes
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Re: Urges.

Postby Dennenappelmoes » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:41 pm

Couple of things that cross my mind;
- Remember why you want it (is this a necessary working area at all? If yes, you should remember your motivation)
- Be kind to yourself. Do not punish or harm yourself. If there was no Buddhism, which would you rather want to be: The conservative Christian who says you go to hell for masturbation and you should feel guilty, or the scientist who says it is a proven way to release stress and get rid of anxiety? In my opinion it is better to indulge in both temptation A and in temptation B with moderation, than to abstain from A completely, fanatically, while still having B (and there always is a B in life). Seriously, ban it from your life and you will notice you'll find a substitute desire, like food or smoke or whatever. Maybe differentiate between: This time food/entertainment/sexual activity is reasonably 'necessary' and an act of kindness towards myself, and this time I'm grateful to have this learning opportunity to make some good karma by taking a new course of action by not doing it. Middle way is where it's at!
- Contemplate the notion of impermanence or simply watch the breath. For me personally that helps a great deal when I feel sad, maybe it would work for your problem as well.

(I'm obviously not a teacher or anything so I'm posting this both to help you and to recieve help from anyone who disagrees with anything I wrote)

Another point: According to Ajahn Brahm, when it comes to sexual desire, restricting your access to things (access as in: even being able to see girls) does not work. It will simply lower the threshold for the desire to arise.

And maybe the way is not to refrain but to progress to a state where the conditions for the desire to arise in the first place dissolve? I think I've heard Yuttadhammo about this, but I can't remember which video.

Best of luck in your development! :namaste:

knighter
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celibacy/self pleasure

Postby knighter » Thu May 16, 2013 12:38 pm

Hello there

Has anyone tried celibacy as part of there practice?, for how long? and how difficult was it?
And sorry to get personal, but what are your thoughts on masterbation.
thanks
knighter

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Sekha
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Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby Sekha » Thu May 16, 2013 12:53 pm

Yes, for several years. Difficult in the beginning, but it becomes ever easier if you keep practicing consistently without backsliding. Masturbation should be avoided.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

Coyote
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Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby Coyote » Thu May 16, 2013 3:58 pm

Celibacy is part of the 8 precepts, which I have kept in the past, though my Uposatha day practice has fallen by the wayside recently. It wasn't a problem for the day/couple of days and gave me lots of work on in my meditation. Never tried it for longer periods, but it shouldn't be a problem if you are really dedicated and in a suitable setting. I think it is definitely a bonus if you are able, but remember there were many stream enterers in the canon who were not celibate.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

knighter
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Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby knighter » Sun May 19, 2013 11:00 am

Hello there

thanks for the reply
. Masturbation should be avoided.
why should masterbation be avoided ?
thanks
knighter

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Sekha
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Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby Sekha » Sun May 19, 2013 11:16 am

Any sexual activity strengthens the attachment of the mind to the body, which is a direct impediment to spiritual growth. The Buddha made this point very clear. There is no way to make it clearer than by experimenting oneself.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

knighter
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:44 am

Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby knighter » Sun May 19, 2013 11:28 am

Thanks sekha

ive just been reading your post on what makes a religion, if my grammar and writing skills where up to scratch id have written everything you had written.
I dont say this often but i hold you in high regard as i dont seem to be able to find many backers of vipassana on this site.
much respect, fellow human
Thanks
knighter

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Aloka
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Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby Aloka » Sun May 19, 2013 11:33 am


knighter
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:44 am

Re: celibacy/self pleasure

Postby knighter » Sun May 19, 2013 11:35 am

ps

any tips on when passion arises?
thanks
knighter


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