masturbation what's wrong?

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Pondera
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Pondera » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:16 am

The amount of pleasure released by one orgasm could be measured out in the course of an entire day. The problem with masturbation is that it impedes upon "genital mindfulness". Sex does the same thing. Watch out for march madness. It's a coming ;)
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:06 am

.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Aloka » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:09 am

Oh gawd, the masturbation thread has reared its head again.

.

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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:25 am

From Wikipedia's entry for John Harvey Kellogg (inventor of the breakfast cereal Kellogg's cornflakes).

    Views on Sexuality

    [...]

    He was an especially zealous campaigner against masturbation; this was an orthodox view during his lifetime, especially the earlier part. Kellogg was able to draw upon many medical sources' claims such as "neither the plague, nor war, nor small-pox, nor similar diseases, have produced results so disastrous to humanity as the pernicious habit of onanism," credited to one Dr. Adam Clarke. Kellogg strongly warned against the habit in his own words, claiming of masturbation-related deaths "such a victim literally dies by his own hand," among other condemnations. He felt that masturbation destroyed not only physical and mental health, but the moral health of individuals as well. Kellogg also believed the practice of this "solitary-vice" caused cancer of the womb, urinary diseases, nocturnal emissions, impotence, epilepsy, insanity, and mental and physical debility; "dimness of vision" was only briefly mentioned.

    Masturbation prevention

    Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying phenol to a young woman's clitoris. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young, he wrote:

    “A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.”

    [...]

    “Kellogg thought that masturbation was the worst evil one could commit; he often referred to it as "self-abuse". He was a leader of the anti-masturbation movement, and promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation. In addition, Kellogg thought that diet played a huge role in masturbation and that a bland diet would decrease excitability and prevent masturbation. Thus, Kellogg invented Corn Flakes breakfast cereal in 1878. He hoped that feeding children this plain cereal every morning would help to combat the urges of "self-abuse".”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
    Yathā bubbuḷakaṃ passe, yathā passe marīcikaṃ,
    Evaṃ lokaṃ avekkhantaṃ, maccurājā na passati.

    One should see it as a bubble;
    One should see it as a mirage.
    Who regards the world thus
    The King of Death sees him not.
    (Dhammapada 170)


    ผู้ที่มองเห็นโลก ว่าไม่จีรังและหาสาระอะไรมิได้
    เช่นเดียวกับคนมองฟองน้ำและพยับแดด
    คนเช่นนี้พญามารย่อมตามหาไม่พบ ฯ
    (ธรรมบท ๑๗๐)

Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Bundokji » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:38 am

What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
"On the highest throne in the world, we are seated, still, upon our arses"
Michel de Montaigne

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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:55 am

Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?


That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
    Yathā bubbuḷakaṃ passe, yathā passe marīcikaṃ,
    Evaṃ lokaṃ avekkhantaṃ, maccurājā na passati.

    One should see it as a bubble;
    One should see it as a mirage.
    Who regards the world thus
    The King of Death sees him not.
    (Dhammapada 170)


    ผู้ที่มองเห็นโลก ว่าไม่จีรังและหาสาระอะไรมิได้
    เช่นเดียวกับคนมองฟองน้ำและพยับแดด
    คนเช่นนี้พญามารย่อมตามหาไม่พบ ฯ
    (ธรรมบท ๑๗๐)

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:01 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?


That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.
.


++++++++++++++++
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Bundokji » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:01 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?


That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.


Thanks Bhante :anjali:
"On the highest throne in the world, we are seated, still, upon our arses"
Michel de Montaigne

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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Aloka » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.


I totally agree.


:anjali:

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DC2R
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby DC2R » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:18 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?


That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.


End thread. :thumbsup:
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Spiny Norman
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:55 pm

DC2R wrote:End thread. :thumbsup:


That's a "relief". :tongue:
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