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Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:55 pm

Do you need to buy it?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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andre9999
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby andre9999 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:08 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:12 pm

My point is that you have as much a need to buy a CD as a need to download it. In the end you just want to hear it.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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andre9999
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby andre9999 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:22 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:31 pm

Now it is I that don't understand what you're saying (in the first part).

As for the second part, here's no need for judgement. You can just say why my interpretation of the exception in the vinaya is wrong. As I said, I could be wrong there so why don't you point out where it is wrong?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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andre9999
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby andre9999 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:42 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:01 pm


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mirco
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby mirco » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:34 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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Alex123
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:44 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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mirco
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby mirco » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:38 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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mirco
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby mirco » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:48 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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BlackBird
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby BlackBird » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:47 am

I don't think illegal downloads quite fit the spirit of stealing. When I think of stealing I think of depriving someone of their property. Illegal downloads deprive Record/Film companies and their executives of a portion of their potential and forecasted income. I don't think it's kusala at all, but I would argue whether it violates the 2nd precept. When you download a film for example - You're not taking it away, but in fact you're multiplying it. We have invented this term called 'copyright' which means what it says it means, that a certain legal entity owns the 'right' to determine who can make a copy of this or that object. But a 'right' isn't something physical, it's simply a mutual agreement by certain legal parties that only so and so can decide how copies are produced. Can you steal that right? No, but you can violate it.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Terasi
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Terasi » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:46 pm

I think precepts are there to help us avoid actions that will harm other people, that will create unwholesome thoughts/emotions in ourselves, because that in turn will carry to unwholesome intentions (covering up shame by lying, etc). So not harming others is an important link here. For example, cheating with other man's wife, you do not technically take his wife away, but you violate his expectation that his wife would be faithful in their marriage. Downloading illegally also violate the artist/creator's expectation that people (including you) would pay them money to use their intellectual property. Seems harmless if we are talking about individual downloads, but in aggregate the amount should be substantial.




Edit: writing "you" here doesn't apply to anyone in particular, actually applies to myself too...

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Alex123
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:03 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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andre9999
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby andre9999 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:49 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:04 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

meindzai
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby meindzai » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:16 pm

If you have taken the precepts and you are committed to the purest sila you possibly can achieve I think it's best to avoid this type of behavior. As precepts go, the 2nd precept is practically a freebee in the sense that it is probably the easiest to keep. If you're serious about the precepts then don't do it.

-M

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mirco
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby mirco » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:54 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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Alex123
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Alex123 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:09 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:50 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)


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