Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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SamKR
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby SamKR » Sun May 13, 2012 1:28 am

Thanks Rui Sousa for your answers. And the link is useful.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby Cittasanto » Sun May 13, 2012 9:30 am

SamKR wrote:
but like others have said there are differing interpretations of Jhana, and what you were describing (as I was seeing) seamed more like wet Jhana, and dry insight, there is one and the other, and they don't mix fully at least.

My current practice is "dry" vipassana, and currently experiencing constant agitation in mind which would not go away (though trying to "let go" of the desire to get rid of this). So I want to explore the "wet" method too to see if that will help me become more relaxed and tranquil (using suttas as guide).


Hi Sam,
I think the problem with a separation of the two, for some people, is what you describe here, agitation, the dry insight lacks the lubrication of samadhi, so for some people there is an abrasive element to the practice on some level, everything is too course and dusty, things are held to tightly so we can not see it properly, like using a gauntlet to pick up a piece of fine delicate parchment, or turn the pages of a 1000yo manuscript, and the same is true with jhana only, everything is too refined so it can be like trying to keep hold of soap in a bath, you can see it but it is not possible to move it to get a full picture of it. These are forms of Upādāna, grasping, in a wrong way, one can lead to roga the other to dosa, affection & disliking, even if only on a subtle level.

Try dedicating the first portion of each sitting to finding a happy place, a gladdening of the citta, the mind would then be more likely to withdraw from any agitating factors, and be more careful in how it holds objects. like stinging nettles, if just grabbed cause agitation, but if taken hold of correctly can be picked without any sting.
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 13, 2012 9:56 am

SamKR wrote:
but like others have said there are differing interpretations of Jhana, and what you were describing (as I was seeing) seamed more like wet Jhana, and dry insight, there is one and the other, and they don't mix fully at least.

My current practice is "dry" vipassana, and currently experiencing constant agitation in mind which would not go away (though trying to "let go" of the desire to get rid of this). So I want to explore the "wet" method too to see if that will help me become more relaxed and tranquil (using suttas as guide).
Trying to let go the desire is probably the problem. Don't worry about it; simply pay attention to the agitation and then to the response to it. Figuratively speaking, of course, step back from it , putting space around it. In letting it be, one's practice can get very "wet," indeed. The division between dry and wet is more apparent than real.
.


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This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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SamKR
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby SamKR » Thu May 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Thank you Cittasanto and tiltbillings for the suggestions.

DGDC
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby DGDC » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:46 am

Sammasamadhi is the last item of the Ariyan Eight-item Path [Ariyo Attngiko Maggo]. It is meaningful only to Ariyans. It doesn't make sense for non-Ariyans to discuss it. It is outside their perception and cognition.

There are no Ariyans living in the world today; all living human beings are non-Ariyans.

For non-Ariyans Sammasamadhi is a belief.

Lord Buddha's words on Sammasamadhi, from Sutta Nipata, is as follows: Yam buddhasettho parivannayi sucim; samadhimanantarikannamahu; samadhina tena samo na vijjati; idampi dhamme ratanam panitam; etena saccena suvatthi hotu. [Sutta Nipata, the Small Chapter, verse 4]

Etena Saccena Suvatthi Hotu

D. C. Wijeratna

SarathW
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:28 am

Hi Wijaratna
Your understanding of Noble Eight Fold Path appears to be incorrect.
NEFP is practiced by lay people to Arahants but in a different level.
Samadhi can not be practiced in isolation of other path factors.
Samma Samadhi should be contrast only with Mitya Samadhi.
This matter has been discussed in the following thread.

Has Tiger Woods attain Jhana?


viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16371&hilit=Right+concentration
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

The Thinker
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby The Thinker » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:19 am

just been reading this subject matter pointed out earlier - http://goo.gl/NP6sKg

What a deep discussion it was, which appears to me to turn into a who is your favourite teacher sort of argument, I like Virgo, I think the point about the soil is a good one, and still not sure the mahasi method was clarified clearly, this is very much a clash of individual personality traits, and how we attach or understand different teachers,teachings. Now I am very inexperienced and not at all familiar with the authors, but just reading the above old post as given me inspiration to download a few books to contrast teachers opinions. Thanks. Tilt and virgo :clap:
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

Cormac Brown
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby Cormac Brown » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:46 pm

*What is Samma Samadhi actually (in simple words)?

A state in which the whole body is immersed in pleasure and ease, and the mind is secluded from the hindrances. An absence of the grosser forms of dukkha.

* What does it include besides concentration and tranquility?

Its qualities can be a combination of rapture, pleasure and/or equanimity, and in the case of the first jhana, directed thought and evaluation.

* Samadhi is often translated as concentration. Is concentration essential part of samadhi, or can there be samadhi without concentration?

Samadhi is translated by most meditation teachers as concentration. It's as good a word as we seem to have, but it might help if we question our traditionally quite narrow definition of it.

* What makes it Samma?

What makes it right is that it's a blameless, harmless and readily accessible form of pleasure, that places no burdens on anyone. It also provides the basis for liberating insight, which frees one from all bonds and places one in complete security.

* Does it refer to tranquil states of mind, or to a process of becoming tranquil?

Good question. I'd say it's most likely the latter. The descriptions of jhana all suggest that the practitioner is in the process of doing them: s/he "suffuses and fills" the body; "permeates" it. Thanissaro Bhikkhu and Ajaan Lee describe it as a skilful and subtle form of becoming/bhava. Rapture and pleasure, too, are described by the Buddha as mental fabrications, as opposed to "states of mind". I suppose the distinction is that one doesn't just reach jhana and then stop all the 'doing'. The jhana is a doing, just a very subtle form - so subtle that the practitioner might mistakenly think they're not doing anything. This is my understanding.

* Is Samma Samadhi equivalent to jhana or a superset of jhana? If both are not equivalent how are they related?

Equivalent.

* Can there be Samma Samadhi without jhana?

Not to my knowledge. In the descriptions of the Noble Eightfold Path, Samma Samadhi seems always to be described as the jhanas.

Cormac Brown
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby Cormac Brown » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:06 pm

SamKR wrote:Among the different parts of the eight-fold path the one with which I am most confused is samma samadhi. So I have the following questions:
* What is Samma Samadhi actually (in simple words)?
* What does it include besides concentration and tranquility?
* Samadhi is often translated as concentration. Is concentration essential part of samadhi, or can there be samadhi without concentration?
* What makes it Samma?
* Does it refer to tranquil states of mind, or to a process of becoming tranquil?
* Is Samma Samadhi equivalent to jhana or a superset of jhana? If both are not equivalent how are they related?
* Can there be Samma Samadhi without jhana?


  1. The four jhanas
  2. It includes the jhana factors.
  3. Samadhi is concentration.
  4. That it fits the descriptions of the jhanas.
  5. My understanding is that they are subtle forms of activity, hence: "He suffuses this body...pervades..." "Entering" into each jhana would be the process of becoming tranquil. Each of the jhanas in and of themselves could be called "tranquil states of mind," which all require input from the practitioner in order to maintain them.
  6. Equivalent.
  7. No.

Cormac Brown
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Re: Questions Regarding Samma Samadhi

Postby Cormac Brown » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:08 pm

Hmm. I seem to have replied twice. Pardon my lapse in mindfulness.


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