Jhanic factors

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

Jhanic factors

Postby TravisGM » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:09 pm

Hello all :)
This would be my 2nd post in Anapanasati meditation. I hope all your practices are going well and I appreciate any and every response I receive.

What my question is today is whether or not I'm experiencing one of the jhanic factors. When I begin to focus on the anapana spot I feel happy, almost as if I'm returning to an old friend after a long time. Is this what you would describe as bliss or joy?

:hug:
To be happy...
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby manas » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:13 am

Hi Travis

it could simply be the joy of having abandoned one or more of the hindrances:

"Suppose that a man, taking a loan, invests it in his business affairs. His business affairs succeed. He repays his old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining his wife. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, taking a loan, I invested it in my business affairs. Now my business affairs have succeeded. I have repaid my old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining my wife.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man falls sick — in pain and seriously ill. He does not enjoy his meals, and there is no strength in his body. As time passes, he eventually recovers from that sickness. He enjoys his meals and there is strength in his body. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was sick... Now I am recovered from that sickness. I enjoy my meals and there is strength in my body.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man is bound in prison. As time passes, he eventually is released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was bound in prison. Now I am released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man is a slave, subject to others, not subject to himself, unable to go where he likes. As time passes, he eventually is released from that slavery, subject to himself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where he likes. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was a slave... Now I am released from that slavery, subject to myself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where I like.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man, carrying money and goods, is traveling by a road through desolate country. As time passes, he eventually emerges from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, carrying money and goods, I was traveling by a road through desolate country. Now I have emerged from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"In the same way, when these five hindrances are not abandoned in himself, the monk regards it as a debt, a sickness, a prison, slavery, a road through desolate country. But when these five hindrances are abandoned in himself, he regards it as unindebtedness, good health, release from prison, freedom, a place of security. Seeing that they have been abandoned within him, he becomes glad. Glad, he becomes enraptured. Enraptured, his body grows tranquil. His body tranquil, he is sensitive to pleasure. Feeling pleasure, his mind becomes concentrated.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


kind regards,
manas :anjali:
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby TravisGM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 am

That makes a lot of sense. I gotta say it seems like there are a lot of progressive steps to the jhanas :)

I must ask next then, how does one know it is joy or bliss?
To be happy...
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:41 pm

TravisGM wrote:I must ask next then, how does one know it is joy or bliss?


This might be helpful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:23 pm

That type of satisfaction and interest is called sukha. Sometimes it comes with a more coarse, almost physical pleasure is known as piti. Piti can manifest as a tingling, shaking, vibrating, or pulsing feeling throughout the mind and body. Of the two, sukha is better. Try and focus on the pleasant contentment and coax it into development. Along with initial application of attention, sustained concentration, and one-pointedness, sukha and piti are of course two of the Jhana factors.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby theY » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:31 am

Just know it, but don't be excited in it.

Exciting in it is mistake of Anapanasati meditation.

Return focus to your tip of nose point all the way.

See gaathaa: http://books.google.co.th/books?id=B_UW ... &q&f=false
Lesson Relationship of Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha (10/31/2012)
http://tipitakanews.org/en/node/61
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Re: Jhanic factors

Postby santa100 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:07 am

TravisGM wrote:
"I must ask next then, how does one know it is joy or bliss?"


By checking it against the Five Hindrances as described by Ven. Gunaratana:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#ch3.2.3
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