jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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PadmaPhala
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by PadmaPhala »

Zen means jhāna...
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by mikenz66 »

I've been working my way through Patrick Kearney's retreat talks which used to be here:
http://www.dharmasalon.net/Audio/Bodhi% ... _2011.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[unfortunately only the introductory talk is now there.]
Bodhi Tree 2011
Talks given at the Bodhi Tree Meditation Centre, September 2011

Edit: here are more recent talks: http://www.dharmasalon.net/Audio/audio.html

Among various other interesting things [followers of this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; may be interested to hear how many times he reminds the retreatants that sati involves memory...], he make some remarks about the connection between Burmese Vipassana (he teaches basically Mahasi style) and Shikantaza (he started in Zen a long time ago).
As some Mahasi practitioners will recall, as one gets more adept with following rising-falling of the abdomen, etc, and builds up some concentration there tend to be gaps visible between in and out breaths. And the usual instruction is to note "sitting" and/or "touching" in that space. And sometimes just the "sitting" and/or the "touching".

Now "sitting" from the Mahasi POV means observing wind element (which is what is holding the body up), but one can also think of it as a kind of whole-body-awareness. And this is the parallel Patrick draws with Shikantaza - sitting very aware of the posture (and keeping the exactly correct posture). As others have suggested on the various Zen/Theravada meditation threads, and as Patrick notes, Shikantaza would be a rather advanced practice from the Mahasi POV. Without the preparatory work of following objects such as rising-falling, which builds up mindfulness and concentration, "just sitting" and paying attention to the posture is quite difficult.

[This discussion, and other remarks about how various Burmese schools teach paying attention to the whole body also suggests that the Mahasi and Goenka/U Ban Kihn approaches that happen to have become well-known elsewhere are just part of a whole spectrum of approaches, and are therefore not as separate as one might think from just examining the beginners instructions of both approaches.]

:anjali:
Mike
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Alex123 »

Dan74 wrote: Just sitting is very simple, but can you "just sit"?
You are right. It is VERY hard to just sit, just eat, or just drink. Nearly impossible for some people, at least in the beginning.

Also isn't being aware of sitting part of 4 postures in satipatthana sutta?
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Dan74 »

mikenz66 wrote:I've been working my way through Patrick Kearney's retreat talks which used to be here:
http://www.dharmasalon.net/Audio/Bodhi% ... _2011.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[unfortunately only the introductory talk is now there.]
Bodhi Tree 2011
Talks given at the Bodhi Tree Meditation Centre, September 2011

Among various other interesting things [followers of this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; may be interested to hear how many times he reminds the retreatants that sati involves memory...], he make some remarks about the connection between Burmese Vipassana (he teaches basically Mahasi style) and Shikantaza (he started in Zen a long time ago).
As some Mahasi practitioners will recall, as one gets more adept with following rising-falling of the abdomen, etc, and builds up some concentration there tend to be gaps visible between in and out breaths. And the usual instruction is to note "sitting" and/or "touching" in that space. And sometimes just the "sitting" and/or the "touching".

Now "sitting" from the Mahasi POV means observing wind element (which is what is holding the body up), but one can also think of it as a kind of whole-body-awareness. And this is the parallel Patrick draws with Shikantaza - sitting very aware of the posture (and keeping the exactly correct posture). As others have suggested on the various Zen/Theravada meditation threads, and as Patrick notes, Shikantaza would be a rather advanced practice from the Mahasi POV. Without the preparatory work of following objects such as rising-falling, which builds up mindfulness and concentration, "just sitting" and paying attention to the posture is quite difficult.

[This discussion, and other remarks about how various Burmese schools teach paying attention to the whole body also suggests that the Mahasi and Goenka/U Ban Kihn approaches that happen to have become well-known elsewhere are just part of a whole spectrum of approaches, and are therefore not as separate as one might think from just examining the beginners instructions of both approaches.]

:anjali:
Mike
I think shikantaza is an advanced practice from any point of view. My view is that of someone who has not practiced shikantaza under a Soto teacher, so a big disclaimer here.

When I sat with a Soto group for over a year (under a teacher in Deshimaru lineage) we were taught to do breath awareness meditation. If I recall correctly, Dogen himself said that shikantaza is something one who has passed through the gate of Zen (seen the nature of mind (anatta/streamentry?)) can do. This is corroborated by the writings of the Hongzhi, Dogen's master's master and one of Dogen's favourites. And it goes without saying that before shikantaza proper, the practitioner would have to have mastered anapanasati equivalent to a very good degree.

The thing about shikantaza, or just sitting, is that there is no special attention given to anything. No focal point. Thought arise and pass away. Perceptions, Volitions.. etc. There is an openness, an alert radiance with no subject/object duality to obstruct and this dissolve all formations, until only propensities are seen and gradually swept away.

The attention given to posture is I think to settle into shikantaza - to focus on the physical and sweep away any fantasies of attainment present, past or future. Just sit and don't add anything to it, not even the sitter. Just sit in everything you do - don't let the mind arise with its reification and then the wants and fears and the whole lot (this is very much related to deep equanimity). Just this and this and this...

It's obviously not an easy practice at all. I am not sure if this is what Kierney had in mind, or rather something else. Some teachers have spoken of the space between two thoughts (eg Krishnamurti), and my (Korean Zen) teacher had asked me to watch the space between the breaths early on in my practice too. But her lineage is not big on detailed instructions - they believe in the practitioner finding out for themselves, I guess - how else can we find the openness of the mind that does not yet know?

My understanding is that in Vipassana tradition, the focus is important to take the meditation deeper and not slacken off. While shikantaza is done when the meditator has sufficient momentum from the deep glimpse of emptiness/anatta and it is more about cultivating this radiant emptiness, dissolving all conditioning and extending the unconditioned into every aspect of the practitioner's life. It is controversial among some Rinzai teachers because enlightenment is understood by them to be sudden and not requiring cultivation. But this is a long saga of little interest to most here, I am sure.

So when a Soto practitioner "just sits" I imagine they get the posture right and sit unencumbered by agendas. Or (more realistically) gradually through the practice and exposure to the teachings, they let go of agendas and sit (and breathe) more and more while doing less and less of everything else (while sitting). Likewise with everything other activity. Just this, this, this.

The danger is perhaps that the Vipassana practitioner stays too focused on the object until the mind manufactures objects to keep the practitioner occupied. And that the shikantaza practitioner sinks into a stupor-like objectless state and gets stuck there. Leaves, branches, trees and the whole forest - it's all essential and we should not lose sight of any part of it in favour of another.

Or so it seems to me.
_/|\_
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks for your comments, Dan,
Dan74 wrote: My understanding is that in Vipassana tradition, the focus is important to take the meditation deeper and not slacken off. While shikantaza is done when the meditator has sufficient momentum from the deep glimpse of emptiness/anatta and it is more about cultivating this radiant emptiness, dissolving all conditioning and extending the unconditioned into every aspect of the practitioner's life.
In relation to what Patrick Keaney's was talking about the "momentum" would be sufficient mindfulness and concentration, but perhaps a bit of insight is also necessary as well...
In the Mahasi approach, there is a "primary object" (abdomen or feet) and one pays attention to "secondary objects" as they arise. After several days on retreat, when mindfulness and concentration have built up sufficiently, it can be possible to just "lock on" to anything that arises, without having to make decisions about what to pay attention to. And as I understand it, that's the aim of such a practice, to be aware of everything that arises, rather than to have to choose what to focus on.
Dan74 wrote: The danger is perhaps that the Vipassana practitioner stays too focused on the object until the mind manufactures objects to keep the practitioner occupied.
I'm sure that's what happened to me for a few months... :tongue: It's easy to imagine the abdomen rising and falling...
Dan74 wrote: And that the shikantaza practitioner sinks into a stupor-like objectless state and gets stuck there. Leaves, branches, trees and the whole forest - it's all essential and we should not lose sight of any part of it in favour of another.
That can happen to anyone, and can be easily mistaken for good samadhi...

:anjali:
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

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Dan74 wrote:As for jhanas vs shikantaza, I think there is a lot of evidence to show that shikantaza is an advanced practice and the practitioner would have reached a level of maturity before practicing silent illumination.
The practice of silent illumination as Master Sheng Yen explained (in stages) starts from allowing the full body to relax well. And then goes some breath contemplation.
Sheng Yen Shifu didn't encourage to engage in the breath meditation too much, because it could guide to losing the balance of calmness and alertness (shifting to more calmness but less clarity). But of course it's up to the practitioner to regulate his practice, as he feels his needs and his state.
Next stages involve the widening and integrating of all our perceptions in one mass. If you are not very successful with the current stage, you return to previous stages. So this method as a whole does not require much preparations, it is taught to novices too. Then they progress gradually.
(I don't mean that the practitioner doesn't need to learn principles, like the explanations on the nature of mind).
Dan74 wrote:What is silent illumination? It's when formations have already been silenced to a great extent, so that awareness is spacious and luminous and as Honzhi taught formations and old habits can be seen and swept away.
http://chancenter.org/cmc/1995/02/01/sh ... umination/
Sheng Yen says:
While you maintain the sitting posture, you should also try to establish the “silent” state of the mind. Eventually you reach a point where the mind does not move and yet is very clear.
...
When we meditate or work, we may fall into a worldly samadhi state and feel that time passes very quickly. In an ordinary state we may feel that time passes quickly or slowly. However, in the mind of wisdom there is no such thing as slow or hurried time. If we can say there is thought in the mind of wisdom, it is an endless thought which never changes. This unchanging thought is no longer thought as we usually understand it. It is the unmoving mind of wisdom.
With this kind of concentration, the mind is unified and there is no hurried time, no slow. The difference between the previous thought and the next one goes away. The mind becomes unmoved.
See also about the stages of Chan practice:
http://chancenter.org/cmc/2011/10/13/what-is-chan-1/
johnny wrote:i don't know what he meant, but i think he left many statements like that open and he often wrote in vague and ethereal speech.
Most easily to say is that Dogen meant by "just sitting" not to engage in expectations or efforts to do something with your mind. They would lead away from the pure and natural quality of awareness.
This way you gradually diminish all the phenomena that come to interrupt your meditation. You attentively and calmly let them go, and the inner struggles and concerns come to the rest. Until, more and more, "just sitting" becomes easy and comfortable, without hurries and worries.
This way the nature of mind could reveal itself more and more easily. With this revelation, we really enter the reality. (Earlier "I myself" was a bit "separate" from the reality).
johnny wrote:in the pali canon it says that one may go into the forth jhana and then up too the fourth of the formless realms and develop insight into reality
...
jhana is required according too the buddha. it is indispensable. so if you decide not too develop the jhanas, you may be missing out, at least according too theravada.
According to Yuganaddha Sutta etc., the arahantship comes as the unity of tranquility and insight. It must be true for Zen methods too.
johnny wrote:that's why it matters which one you practice. many zen masters will say you don't need jhana, most theravada say you do.
...
i'm positive it is a "thing" in zen that jhana is not often taught or recommended.
...
most part. other traditions may practice it by default, but they generally don't use the theravada systematized explanation and progression.
Yes. However in the "Hoofprint of the Ox"
http://www.amazon.com/Hoofprint-Ox-Prin ... 0195152484
Sheng Yen discusses early Buddhism methods (during several chapters), and only then goes to Chan methods.
I believe there are some explanations about jhana, samadhi, "Mahayana samadhi" and non-attachment to samadhi.
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Anagarika »

It's been my experience from practice in Zen sanghas years ago that what is taught as sitting meditation, shikantaza, zazen, 'silent illumination' bears little resemblance to the jhanas that the Buddha taught. I spent some time sitting with a Soto sangha in more recent years as I felt the need to be a part of a large sangha, but I could not endure what really amounted to hours of sitting, very limited instruction to beginning meditators, overemphasis on posture, and a wholesale rejection of jhana and dismissal of vipassana elements. The Roshi even stated once that doing insight meditation "aggravated' him. Others' mileage may vary, but I do feel that there are many, many people in Zen spending countless hours on a zafu with their eyes focused on a spot on the wall, and missing what the Buddha intended by his instructions: "Do jhana."
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

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BuddhaSoup wrote:The Roshi even stated once that doing insight meditation "aggravated' him.
People are really different... I love insight - as exploration... But I had some hard time trying to practise tranquility. Especially at the beginning, when it seemed like hundreds of ants crawled over my body... :)
Might the cause with the Roshi be that efforts to concentrate on insight just made it harder? And for some people that can work more, than for the others?
Like Krishnamurti said:
Attention needs not be practised at all!
If you practise it you already become inattentive...
Are you following all this?..
So when you are attentive and your mind wanders off, which indicates that it is inattentive, let it wander off and know that it is attent-inattentive, and the very awareness of that inattention is attention...
Don't battle with inattention. Don't say "I must be attentive", which entails this. Know that you are inattentive.
Be aware choicelessly that you are inattentive. What of it?..
But the moment in this inattention there is action - be aware of that action.
etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYBUzrLyti4
By the way, dear Theravada brothers and sisters, what would you recommend to read if I want to try to develop jhanas? What text is the most clear, deep and easy practiceable at home?
I have good conditions now: relatives are in travel, I'm on vacations, my town is quiet and some forest is nearby.
Thanks. _/|\_
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Alex123 »

chang zhao wrote:
BuddhaSoup wrote:The Roshi even stated once that doing insight meditation "aggravated' him.
People are really different... I love insight - as exploration... But I had some hard time trying to practise tranquility. Especially at the beginning, when it seemed like hundreds of ants crawled over my body... :)
Might the cause with the Roshi be that efforts to concentrate on insight just made it harder? And for some people that can work more, than for the others?
It seems to me that, strictly speaking, insight and tranquillity are effects. One can't practice them. One can't practice insight, one either has it or not.
Insight is what happens as an effect of certain causes like meditation, silent observation, and circumspect studying of experience.

As for Jhana books:
Ajahn Brahm's books such as "Mindfulness bliss & beyond", "simply this moment" and after these two books "the art of disappearing" (or something like that) are interesting.

http://wat-lao.org/PDFs/Bibliothek/Ajah ... Moment.pdf

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/upl ... -Janas.pdf
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Anagarika »

As for Jhana books:
Ajahn Brahm's books such as "Mindfulness bliss & beyond", "simply this moment" and after these two books "the art of disappearing" (or something like that) are interesting.

http://wat-lao.org/PDFs/Bibliothek/Ajah ... Moment.pdf

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/upl ... -Janas.pdf
Alex, thanks so much for these links, above. I feel like an old dog given two large bones to chew on for a few weeks. :twothumbsup: I know that some have been slightly critical of Ajahn Brahm's approach to Jhana, but with my quick look at the first pages of both of these e-books, his scholarship looks very strong. I kinda see him as the Steven Colbert of Theravada...once you get past the humor, there's some incredible teaching going on. I'm a fan and glad to have these books on my laptop to carry with me and to read and reread. Very cool of you to take the time to share these.

Metta

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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by chang zhao »

Thank you :).
BTW it came to my attention that Yuganaddha Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
says that different practitioners develop either tranquillity in tandem with insight, or one preceding another.
So it may be that "the best way" is different for different people:
wildfox7 wrote:the jhana teachers that I know of insist and argue that jhana practice excludes 'insight' practice. This is an important technical argument that I decline to speak about, as people are so intractable and take offense at disagreement.
Those who are better at the development of the tranquillity first, might naturally believe that attempts to develop insight are not helpful (and that could be true for them). And such tranquillity-oriented people may naturally concentrate on teaching jhanas of all the methods...
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

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Mikenz66 Thank you for the link to this thread.
Jhana vs silent illumination or other Zen methods
After going through the posts, I have a renewed admiration
for DW.
LonesomeYogurt wrote?
johnny wrote:
oh wait, what am i saying? jhana is frequently listed as exactly the definition of "right concentration"! so it's firmly in the pali canon as a very important step.
If you're going to have a firm base in the Pali scriptures then Jhana is a requirement, unless you're willing to do some textual gymnastics.

Check out Buddhadasa or Ajahn Chah - both are firmly grounded in Theravada but have a Zen approach that many find refreshing.

Here is Buddhadasa's main meditation approach - it is very close to some Zen styles of open, calm awareness.

http://what-buddha-taught.net/Books3/Bh ... athing.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Several western scholars have implied this,
Check out Buddhadasa or Ajahn Chah - both are firmly grounded in Theravada but have a Zen approach that many find refreshing.

Here is Buddhadasa's main meditation approach - it is very close to some Zen styles of open, calm awareness
that refreshingness is very welcoming at the beginning, but then as you are reaching the end of 8-fold path it introduces a conundrum. These teachers were amazing, but did they really understand the 8th step of Noble path. If they did, they did not guide their followers towards it, in a logically Theravadin style, via the Four Buddhist jhanas. By resorting to Zen at that point, they did away with the need for Jhana. Personally I had tried the Zen approach for one whole year... I felt I was on top of the Mt Sumeru sometimes, but never understood how to get there, then I seriously studied Jhana, took me almost another year, and now I ask myself "Are these Zen teachers for real?" or did they have closed fists in regard to something unlike Buddha.
A passing thought simply. I have no argument with anyone here, but simply thankful to whoever that started this thread.
With love :candle:
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Dan74 »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:30 pm Mikenz66 Thank you for the link to this thread.
Jhana vs silent illumination or other Zen methods
After going through the posts, I have a renewed admiration
for DW.
LonesomeYogurt wrote?
johnny wrote:
oh wait, what am i saying? jhana is frequently listed as exactly the definition of "right concentration"! so it's firmly in the pali canon as a very important step.
If you're going to have a firm base in the Pali scriptures then Jhana is a requirement, unless you're willing to do some textual gymnastics.

Check out Buddhadasa or Ajahn Chah - both are firmly grounded in Theravada but have a Zen approach that many find refreshing.

Here is Buddhadasa's main meditation approach - it is very close to some Zen styles of open, calm awareness.

http://what-buddha-taught.net/Books3/Bh ... athing.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Several western scholars have implied this,
Check out Buddhadasa or Ajahn Chah - both are firmly grounded in Theravada but have a Zen approach that many find refreshing.

Here is Buddhadasa's main meditation approach - it is very close to some Zen styles of open, calm awareness
that refreshingness is very welcoming at the beginning, but then as you are reaching the end of 8-fold path it introduces a conundrum. These teachers were amazing, but did they really understand the 8th step of Noble path. If they did, they did not guide their followers towards it, in a logically Theravadin style, via the Four Buddhist jhanas. By resorting to Zen at that point, they did away with the need for Jhana. Personally I had tried the Zen approach for one whole year... I felt I was on top of the Mt Sumeru sometimes, but never understood how to get there, then I seriously studied Jhana, took me almost another year, and now I ask myself "Are these Zen teachers for real?" or did they have closed fists in regard to something unlike Buddha.
A passing thought simply. I have no argument with anyone here, but simply thankful to whoever that started this thread.
With love :candle:
What makes you think the Forest Ajahns "did not guide their followers towards it, in a logically Theravadin style, via the Four Buddhist jhanas"?

As far as I know they did teach jhanas. ajahn Brahm definitely teaches jhanas. And just because some of them had something that resembled Zen in their approach does not suddenly make them heterodox. What's wrong with using whatever method helps people along with their practice?
_/|\_
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

Post by Pulsar »

Dan74 wrote
What makes you think the Forest Ajahns "did not guide their followers towards it, in a logically Theravadin style, via the Four Buddhist jhanas"?

As far as I know they did teach jhanas. ajahn Brahm definitely teaches jhanas. And just because some of them had something that resembled Zen in their approach does not suddenly make them heterodox. What's wrong with using whatever method helps people along with their practice?
The reference was only to two Ajhans not the entire group of forest Ajahns which includes Thannisaro too. Thanissaro frequently refers to the Buddhist jhanas. As far as the two said Ajhans go, there is nothing wrong with it, except that some of his followers ended up thinking the 4 buddhist jhanas were not essential for the successful completion of the Buddhist path leading to Right knowledge and Right Deliverance. MN 117.
If they thought the jhanas were critical, it was not communicated in their teachings.
"it"
in the passage meant right deliverance, or the end of suffering.
Zen teachers commonly do not speak of the importance of "Right concentration" the 8th
step of the 8-fold path, which is about four Buddhist jhanas. If they have I am not familiar with those,
and if you are, can you post a link to those writings. I would be interested in whatever Ajhan Buddhadasa and Ajahn Chah wrote about the Four Buddhist jhanas or Right concentration, the last step of the 8-fold path.
Be well! :candle:
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Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods

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Dan74 since you mentioned Ajhan Brahms I looked him up, here is a brief statement about his understanding of 4 Buddhist jhanas
Ajahn Brahm describes himself as a ‘meditation junkie’ and is famous for his statement that ‘jhāna is better than sex’. He has brought the jhāna to the center of attention like no other modern Buddhist meditation master before him. He has made several important comments about the state of jhāna, which is attained by his method of meditation. He points out, that all the five senses are totally shut down during jhāna. A meditator cannot feel, hear, see, smell of feel touch. Even if someone tapped a meditator absorbed in jhāna on the shoulder, he wouldn’t feel a thing (Brahm, 2006: 154). In the state of jhāna, one cannot experience his own body, or feel any pain. As Ajahn Brahm points out, once the meditator is inside the jhāna, there is no more choice. One will be able to emerge only when the fuel of relinquishment will be all used up. Higher jhānas usually persist for several hours (Brahm, 2006: 24–25). To illustrate his point, Ajahn Brahm recollects a fascinating story:
A lay disciple once told me how, completely by chance, he had fallen into a deep jhāna while meditating at home. His wife thought he had died and sent for an ambulance. He was rushed to hospital in a loud wail of sirens. In the emergency room, no heartbeat registered on the ECG, and no brain activity was seen by EEG So the doctor on duty put de brillators on his chest to reactivate his heart. Even though he was being bounced up and down on the hospital bed through the force of the electric shocks, he didn’t feel a thing. When he emerged from the jhāna in the emergency room, perfectly all right, he had no knowledge of how he got there, nothing of ambulances and sirens. Nothing of body-jerking de brillator (Brahm 2006, 154–155).
..
contrary to what Ajahn Brahm writes, it is not jhāna that we are reminded of here. The complete inactivity of the senses, the resemblance to a dead person, the halt in the functioning of the most basic bodily operations are all the features of the highest yogic state of meditation, the very same state that was introduced by the later Buddhists under the name of saññāvedayitanirodha. There can be no doubt, that Ajahn Brahm’s jhāna possesses all the distinct features of yogic meditation.
The jhana Brahm describes here, sounds more like a Vedic yoga method. Perhaps based on writings like this, some folks think Jhana has to last a long time, hours and hours. Nowhere in the canon does it say that Jhana has to exceed a certain length of time. In Indriyabhavana sutta MN152 Buddha states that blocking senses is not a means of developing faculties...https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN152.html.
an excerpt
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Kajjangalas in the Bamboo Grove. Then the young brahman Uttara, a student of Parasiri[1] went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged friendly greetings & courtesies. After this exchange of courteous greetings he sat to one side.

As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him: "Uttara, does the brahman Parasiri teach his followers the development of the faculties?"

"Yes, master Gotama, he does."

"And how does he teach his followers the development of the faculties?"

"There is the case where one does not see forms with the eye, or hear sounds with the ear [in a trance of non-perception]. That's how the brahman Parasiri teaches his followers the development of the faculties."

"That being the case, Uttara, then a blind person will have developed faculties, and a deaf person will have developed faculties, according to the words of the brahman Parasiri. For a blind person does not see forms with the eye, and a deaf person does not hear sounds with the ear."

When this was said, the young brahman Uttara sat silent & abashed, his shoulders slumped, his head down, brooding, at a loss for words
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