Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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mikenz66
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by mikenz66 »

reflection wrote:Guys, this is not about Venerable Thanissaro, not about Venerable Brahmavamso. Neither is it about Sylvester or danieLion or reflection or whoever. So may I ask you to keep it a bit impersonal? I understand you defending your positions, but the last posts really represent nothing substantial, or nothing that's already been said. You got the freedom to say whatever you want of course, but this is just me asking as a dhamma friend to another dhamma friend to keep it a bit ontopic.
Good idea.

Many teachers, ancient and modern, teach quite deep absorptions. It seems rather clear in the ancient commentaries that those deep absorptions involve mental objects.E.g. see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1%B ... Dh%C4%81na" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1%B ... and_jhanas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or for modern teachers Pa Auk Sayadaw's books http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/library ... ?aapath=69" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or Shaila Catherine's book on Pa Auk Sayadaw's approach http://imsb.org/books/wwd.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I understand it, Reflection started this thread to enquire how these approaches either evolved from, or are implicit in, the suttas. I would highly reccomend Shaila's book in investigating that, since she gives copious quotes from Sutta, as well as Abhidhamma and Commentary.

Venerables Thanissaro and Brahm each have their particular interpretations of the Suttas. I don't follow either of them in terms of practice, but I have found teachings from both of them interesting and illuminating. There are clearly many other teachers and practitioners who agree or disagree with either (or both) of them.

It seems to me to be a little pointless to rehash these arguments about whether Vens Thanissoro, Brahm, or neither, are "correct". I think that it would be more fruitful to simply discuss what the suttas do say, and to that end Sylvesters comments about the translations of some of those passages are very relevant.

:anjali:
Mike
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

marc108 wrote:
Sylvester wrote: I merely point out that what Ven T says in his teachings is not necessarily what the suttas say in the original Pali . The disillusionment is realising that I had been short-selling myself by using his interpretations.
could you expand on this please?

Hi marc

I mentioned an example in this post -

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p196525" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A scholar was obviously relying on Ven T's translation of DN 9, not realising that the translation was wrong. The scholar ended up criticising the sutta on the basis of the English mistranslation! What is at stake in this mistranslation is the dilution of the absorption model in DN 9 (ie no thoughts or intentions in all the Jhanas and Arupas) into no thoughts/intentions only in the Base of Nothingness.

There are a fair number of other mistranslations in DN 9, but I won't dwell on those, as they are not relevant to the issue of thinking and analysis within the Jhanas.

In the previous page, we discussed AN 9.37's treatment of samādhi -
Ekamidāhaṃ, āvuso, samayaṃ sākete viharāmi añjanavane migadāye. Atha kho, āvuso, jaṭilavāsikā bhikkhunī yenāhaṃ tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā maṃ abhivādetvā ekamantaṃ aṭṭhāsi. Ekamantaṃ ṭhitā kho, āvuso, jaṭilavāsikā bhikkhunī maṃ etadavoca— ‘yāyaṃ, bhante ānanda, samādhi na cābhinato na cāpanato na ca sasaṅkhāraniggayhavāritagato, vimuttattā ṭhito, ṭhitattā santusito, santusitattā no paritassati. Ayaṃ, bhante ānanda, samādhi kiṃphalo vutto bhagavatā’ti?

308Evaṃ vutte, sohaṃ, āvuso, jaṭilavāsikaṃ bhikkhuniṃ etadavocaṃ— ‘yāyaṃ, bhagini, samādhi na cābhinato na cāpanato na ca sasaṅkhāraniggayhavāritagato, vimuttattā ṭhito, ṭhitattā santusito, santusitattā no paritassati. Ayaṃ, bhagini, samādhi aññāphalo vutto bhagavatā’ti. Evaṃsaññīpi kho, āvuso, tadāyatanaṃ no paṭisaṃvedetī”ti.

Ven T's translation -

Once, friend, when I was staying in Saketa at the Game Refuge in the Black Forest, the nun Jatila Bhagika went to where I was staying, and on arrival — having bowed to me — stood to one side. As she was standing there, she said to me: 'The concentration whereby — neither pressed down nor forced back, nor with fabrication kept blocked or suppressed — still as a result of release, contented as a result of standing still, and as a result of contentment one is not agitated: This concentration is said by the Blessed One to be the fruit of what?'

"I said to her, 'Sister, the concentration whereby — neither pressed down nor forced back, nor with fabrication kept blocked or suppressed — still as a result of release, contented as a result of standing still, and as a result of contentment one is not agitated: This concentration is said by the Blessed One to be the fruit of gnosis.'[1] This is another way of being percipient when not sensitive to that dimension."
Ven T translates kiṃphalo as a genitive tappurisa, which is grammatically possible, even if rare. This leads to the aññāphalo also being translated as a genitive tappurisa ("fruit of gnosis"), which Ven T identifies as Arahanta. The effect of this translation would be to limit the na sasaṅkhāraniggayhavāritagata samādhi to the Arahants, and taking out of the reach of anyone else.

While it is grammatically possible to do this, this flies in the face of clear passages elsewhere that the na sasaṅkhāraniggayhavāritagata samādhi refers to the Jhanas. Instead of translating kiṃphalo as "fruit of what?", it could have been more conventionally translated as "of what fruit?" The aññāphalo would then be translated as "the fruit that issues in aññā", where aññā is inflected in the dative, instead of the genitive, within the compound. The aññā need not necessarily refer only to Arahanta, as it can refer to Stream Entry as well. Alternatively, DN 34's section on Fives suggests that the aññā may be synonymous with the 5 ñāṇa that one attains in respect of sammāsamādhi, including the ñāṇa that sammāsamādhi is na sasaṅkhāraniggayhavāritagata.

This mistranslation goes to the core of the debate - just how much will of the will/volition survives in the Jhanas? Is there enough will/volition in the Jhanas to carry out analysis and rumination?
daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by daverupa »

I'm rather disinclined to allow DN 9 in my ruminations on this subject. I will elaborate, as necessary.

With respect to the idea that
the anupassati encountered in satipaṭṭhāna (which admits of a bare awareness connotation), samanupassati suggests a much more analytical and discursive character
I can agree with the discursive character of samanupassati, but is it not the case that it is present for all four jhanas in AN 9.36? So, I don't see what point 'B', above, serves. (I also disagree with the connotation you've ascribed to anupassati, but that may be tangential here.)

So, we are left with your injunction to
pay heed to the grammatical construction of the locative absolute used in that pericope
Can you please elaborate here? -This would be with respect to the statement
I do not see any clear reason to suggest that there is a substantive change between the arising of jhana and the direction of attention as instructed.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

Hi dave
daverupa wrote:I'm rather disinclined to allow DN 9 in my ruminations on this subject. I will elaborate, as necessary.
Pls do elaborate. I would hope you'll throw in some heavy duty Textual Criticism, given than DN 9 has a lovely parallel in DA 28. The Chinese follows the Pali very closely, to the extent of mirroring DN 9's -
'Thinking is bad for me. Not thinking is better for me.'

有念為惡。 無念為善

If I were to think and will, these perceptions of mine would cease, and a grosser perception would appear.

彼作是念 時。彼微妙想不滅 更麤想生。 (the Chinese inserts a "subtle" 微妙 to qualify the 1st perception, and may have mistakenly negated the cessation 滅 of that subtle perception. Alternatively, the Chinese passage was referring only to the Base of Nothingness, but this would lead to the ridiculous result of 2 perceptions occupying the same time)

What if I were neither to think nor to will?

我 今寧可不為念行。

So he neither thinks nor wills, and as he is neither thinking nor willing, that perception ceases and another, grosser perception does not appear.

不起思惟。彼不為念 行。不起思惟已。微妙想滅。麤想不生。
It looks as if DA 28 shares DN 9's very absorbed model of jhana, and these 2 texts do not seem to be the outcome of fiddling by their respective Abhidharmikas.

With respect to the idea that
the anupassati encountered in satipaṭṭhāna (which admits of a bare awareness connotation), samanupassati suggests a much more analytical and discursive character
I can agree with the discursive character of samanupassati, but is it not the case that it is present for all four jhanas in AN 9.36? So, I don't see what point 'B', above, serves. (I also disagree with the connotation you've ascribed to anupassati, but that may be tangential here.)
Samanupassati is indeed placed in some relation to all 4 jhanas. My point is this - if samanupassati were discursive and samanupassati occurs during a jhana, how is that possible for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Jhanas, where vacīsaṅkhāras are absent? The issue then translates into a query whether the 1st Jhana retains vacīsaṅkhāras of sufficient force to samanupassati. If we say that it does, then the AN 9.36 series is disturbed and samanupassati ceases to be a common denominator, ie samanupassati will be read to occur within 1st Jhana, but can only occur after 2nd Jhana etc.

So, we are left with your injunction to
pay heed to the grammatical construction of the locative absolute used in that pericope
Can you please elaborate here?
When the locative absolute formed of a past participle (eg samāhite) is used, it means that the verb's action under that past participle has been completed, before the next action (abhininnāmeti) takes place. To signify the continuation of a past action in conjunction with a subsequent verb, the past action is denoted by a genitive case and its noun is also inflected in the genitive case. I know it sounds circular, but I can only cite how the grammars treat this temporal distinction. The genitive absolute is the go-to construction to indicate contemporaneity, since the other construction is uncertain, eg using the absolutive (following Geiger), but its more standard function is to indicate a completed past action, or sometimes the infinitive (following Gombrich).

:anjali:
daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by daverupa »

Sylvester wrote:Pls do elaborate.
I have sent a PM, since it's argument's example is long and off-topic here. Nevertheless, I think we can pursue a fruitful inquiry here, specifically:
Sylvester wrote:My point is this - if samanupassati were discursive and samanupassati occurs during a jhana, how is that possible for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Jhanas, where vacīsaṅkhāras are absent? The issue then translates into a query whether the 1st Jhana retains vacīsaṅkhāras of sufficient force to samanupassati. If we say that it does, then the AN 9.36 series is disturbed and samanupassati ceases to be a common denominator, ie samanupassati will be read to occur within 1st Jhana, but can only occur after 2nd Jhana etc.
Where do we learn, again, that vacīsaṅkhāras cease in jhanas 2-4? Or, why is samanupassati a vacīsaṅkhāra? Why is the series disturbed; I do not follow there. "But can only occur after 2nd Jhana etc." is not explained, and seems to contradict the idea that vacīsaṅkhāras cease there.

There are assumptions and threads here which I do not seem to recognize. Perhaps I'm simply obtuse; these arguments don't follow, but I'm no philologist, so the gaps are great.

:candle:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

Ouch! I'm nursing a Heideggerian sized migraine from reading your PM. But I'll soldier on. I wonder what you think about my post about the Formless bits here - http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 80#p197550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Where do we learn, again, that vacīsaṅkhāras cease in jhanas 2-4?
The 2nd Jhana pericope which provides -
with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.

...vitakkavicāranaṃ vūpasamā ajjhattaṃ sampasādanaṃ cetaso ekodibhāvaṃ avitakkaṃ avicāraṃ samādhijaṃ pitisukhaṃ dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
as well as MN 44 -

What are verbal fabrications? ...Directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications. ...Having first directed one's thoughts and made an evaluation, one then breaks out into speech. That's why directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications.

katamo vacīsaṅkhāro? ...Vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro. ...Pubbe kho āvuso visākha vitakketvā vicāretvā pacchā vācaṃ bhindati. Tasmā vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro.
Or, why is samanupassati a vacīsaṅkhāra?
I would not say that samanupassati is a vacīsaṅkhāra. I would say that the action samanupassati would require vacīsaṅkhāra. Notice how MN 44 reads - vitakkavicārā as a compound of nouns. But the definition then moves on to discuss the 2 denominative verbs vitakketi and vicāreti derived from the nouns. This suggests to me that this definition is formalising an analysis for thought activity (thinking) being driven by a form of intention (vacīsaṅkhāra).
Why is the series disturbed; I do not follow there. "But can only occur after 2nd Jhana etc." is not explained, and seems to contradict the idea that vacīsaṅkhāras cease there.
In the suttas, a series is used to contrast different members of the series, but a thread will also run through the series. This thread will be the common denominator. If we read samanupassati in AN 9.36 as being discursive, it must mean that samanupassati is being driven by vitakkavicārā. But, vitakkavicārā being absent in anything from the 2nd Jhana upwards, would either -

1. contradict the hypothesis that samanupassati is discursive; or
2. require that samanupassati happens during 1st Jhana, but happens after arising from 2nd Jhana etc.

The 2nd possibility would mean that samanupassati is qualitatively different in 1st Jhana versus the higher jhanas, thereby breaking the thread that unifies that series.

This suggests that a 3rd possibility is the most plausible, where samanupassati is discursive yet relates to all the 4 jhanas in the same way, namely it happens not within the jhanas, but after one arises from it. In these cases, I am of the view that the present tense verb samanupassati is not used in a narrative sense but as an imperative. There is nothing in the present tense to indicate contemporaneity of the viharati (abides in jhana) and samanupassati (regards).
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by daverupa »

Ah, thank you for the details. In that case, it seems we have here some instructions for not becoming fixated internally. But also, form is still within view during the jhanas. This will mean a distinct sort of experience, as against the more common formless aspirations.

As to the other thread, even if the two formless attainments of the Buddha's former teachers and the later formless structure are perhaps similar in name only, I as yet set them aside, thus far, due to the heuristic to which you have been subjected. The wild gesticulation of it, as that thread succinctly puts it, I must apologize for. It is still being worked out, though the structure itself is settling.

:alien:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by reflection »

Well, you lost me. :tongue:

Let me just say I don't think you don't have to be a linguist to be a Buddhist. ;)
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

Hi again
daverupa wrote:Ah, thank you for the details. In that case, it seems we have here some instructions for not becoming fixated internally. But also, form is still within view during the jhanas. This will mean a distinct sort of experience, as against the more common formless aspirations.
And I was wondering when the rūpa argument would pop up. :tongue:

If you were suggesting that the presence of rūpasañña in the 4 Jhanas is indicative of phassa/contact with the 5 kāmā of rūpa, sadda, gandha, rasa and phoṭṭhabba, it is worth noting that this conception of rūpa is an Abhidhamma innovation. Sue Hamilton's "Identity and Experience" (Cap 1) traces how the Abhidhamma explains rūpa in terms of the 5 "material" senses and their respective objects. Dmytro has also helpfully observed this as well in this post - http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 99#p193298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Hamilton makes these points -
...the Theravada Buddhist tradition has generally understood the term updi nipa specifically
to refer to the senses (usually taken to be the physical sense organs) and
their corresponding sense objects, collectively called gatanas. A typical
definition of upa'di rCpa is given in the Dhammasanganiof the Abhidhamma,
where it is stated to refer to ten of the gatanas (that is excluding the sixth
sense, manas, and its corresponding object, dhammZ).16 In the Vibhanga the
same ten 6yatunas are in turn described as the four great elements which are
derived," which amounts to the same thing put differently

...Given such prominent mention of the senses in the Sutta Pitaka, and
given that it is obvious to us that there are physical organs corresponding to
at least five of the senses (so one might equally obviously assume that they
are part of the ru'pakkhandha), it is also conversely notable that nowhere in
the Sutta Pitaka are the senses, or their corresponding sense objects, explicitly
stated to be part of the riipakkhandha, and none of the passages which is
specifically describing the riipakkhandha includes any of them as upEdd nipa.

...With regard to the increasingly 'physical' understanding of the senses,
not only does the later tradition explicitly classify the senses as riipa, but the
later texts also give long and elaborate physical descriptions of the sense
organs.

(sorry, too lazy to clean up the diacritics)
It might be worth noting this oft-unnoticed little axiom proposed in MN 28, after its exposition on the 4 dhātu -
"Friends, just as when — in dependence on timber, vines, grass, & clay — space is enclosed and is gathered under the term 'house,' in the same way, when space is enclosed in dependence on bones, tendons, muscle, & skin, it is gathered under the term, 'form.'
Hamilton makes the same observation about "space" being classified as rūpa.

A little further down the sutta, it embarks on an exposition of phassa. All 6 contacts yield the rūpakkhandha, not just the so-called 5 "material" senses.

I don't think we're any nearer to resolving the mystery of whether rūpasañña means perception of the physical body in jhana, based merely on the presence of rūpasañña. Hamilton makes the point that in the Suttas, their detailed explanation of each dhātu posits an "abstract" conception of rūpa. Certainly, the Abhidhammic and Commentarial explanations (eg to DN 15) which are more "solid" could support your point but the Suttas, prima facie, seem to work on a more conceptual level.

As for the "fixated internally" (presumably MN 138?), some delicious hints from the Chinese parallel will be explored by Ven Analayo in the future.

:anjali:
daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by daverupa »

All 6 contacts yield the rūpakkhandha, not just the so-called 5 "material" senses.
Yes of course; the aggregates operate across each of the sense spheres. The presence of rupasanna is noteworthy because of the comparative lack of it in the arupa list, which is obvious at first. But when you consider that arupa attainments are fairly standard brahmana fare (see especially the last section of Snp), this becomes a significant differentiation, does it not?
MN 36 wrote:"I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana...
It seems to be the Buddha's discovery, one which does not require the prerequisites which seem to be needed by arupa seekers, and one which uniquely includes rupasanna.

It seems clear rupasanna was assumed to be impossible, therefore, in these arupa states which were making the rounds, which seems significant as well since it suggests that the abstract potential of the term 'rupa' in this context may not be indicated. (After all, namarupa does not allow of an interpretation which amounts to namanama, does it?)

I note that I don't have the Pali for
Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal.
which may be pertinent?
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
danieLion
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by danieLion »

I've PM'd Sylvester an apology. This topic is clearly in the hands of more competent minds than mine. :popcorn:
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

danieLion wrote:I've PM'd Sylvester an apology. This topic is clearly in the hands of more competent minds than mine. :popcorn:
And I hope you'll also forgive my silly transgression. :hug:
danieLion
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by danieLion »

Sylvester wrote:
danieLion wrote:I've PM'd Sylvester an apology. This topic is clearly in the hands of more competent minds than mine. :popcorn:
And I hope you'll also forgive my silly transgression. :hug:
Of course. I wouldn't be able to continue learning from you if I held a grudge.
Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by Sylvester »

daverupa wrote: I note that I don't have the Pali for
Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal.
which may be pertinent?

That would be -
Evameva kho bhikkhave bhikkhu imameva kāyaṃ vivekajena pītisukhena abhisandeti parisandeti paripūreti parippharati.
And what might you think kāya means there? Physical body, mental collection? Just note the bar in MN 43.21 against the body faculty experiencing any external āyatana besides phoṭṭhabba...

Other considerations - kāya figures in some common idioms, such as -
kāyena ceva paramasaccaṃ sacchikaroti,

he realises the ultimate truth with the body
eg MN 95
Doesn't look like the physical body were meant here.

In SN 18.21, the term saviññāṇaka kāya refers to the 5 Aggregates, leading one to the reading that kāya refers to perception, feeling, formations and form.

Other occurences of kāya as "collection" includes saññākāyā (collections of perception, DN 33), vedanākāyā (DN 33, SN 12.2), viññāṇakāyā etc. And we of course have the well-known rūpakāya and nāmakāya in DN 15's fabulous exposition on bare contact and conceptualising contact. Not forgetting nāmakāya in Sn 5.6, which appears conceptually similar to DN 15's nāmakāya as the naming process/activity.

Given the breadth of kāya's usage in the suttas as a collator of mental states, what might it mean in the jhana pericopes?
daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Post by daverupa »

Sylvester wrote:Just note the bar in MN 43.21...
Well, that Sutta says first jhana has five factors... I'll just plant a flag there, and we can move on.
Sylvester wrote:Given the breadth of kāya's usage in the suttas as a collator of mental states, what might it mean in the jhana pericopes?
It must be something that allows for seclusion from kaya, such that kaya can be infused with piti-sukha like water through a bath ball, or like cool water welling up into a lake from below. Permeation seems to be the theme of the metaphors...

I think there's a hint in the third line of the first tetrad in anapanasati, which enjoins the practitioner to experience all the bodies (or, the entire body) which, to me, looks like an injunction to make the whole thing a single percept; something along these lines, though I'm still examining the issue...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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