How to get into jhana

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

How to get into jhana

Postby cooran » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:17 pm

Hello all,

A short article from from Wildmind:

How to get into Jhana
http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practi ... into-jhana

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:45 pm

Hi Cooran
Thanks.
By the way I stop reading the article half way!
I hope I am not having a bad morning.

He says:
While pīti is physical, sukha is emotional.
The third and fourth jhāna factors are vitakka and vicāra

Is above correct?
:shrug:
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby Mkoll » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 pm

SarathW wrote:While pīti is physical, sukha is emotional.
The third and fourth jhāna factors are vitakka and vicāra

Is above correct?


Hi Sarath,

There isn't a good consensus as to exactly what jhana is and how to get to it. Leigh Brasington has a good article on his website explaining some of the different interpretations of jhana by modern teachers. Also, almost half of Richard Shankman's book, The Experience of Samadhi is devoted to interviews with meditation teachers about jhana. You might find some more information there.

:anjali:
Peace,
James
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby culaavuso » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:07 am

SarathW wrote:He says:
While pīti is physical, sukha is emotional.
The third and fourth jhāna factors are vitakka and vicāra


The suttas seem to say that sukha is sensed with the body:

AN 5.28 (Pali)
AN 5.28: Samadhanga Sutta (Thanissaro Bhikkhu Translation) wrote:And furthermore, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture, so that there is nothing of his entire body unpervaded with pleasure divested of rapture.


Nina Van Gorkom's Abhidhamma in Daily Life says that sukha is a mental happy feeling and not a bodily pleasant feeling. However, it defines piti as a part of the sankhara aggregate and sukha as part of the vedana aggregate. In these terms it seems that neither one is "physical".
Nina Van Gorkom wrote:Another jhana-factor is piti, translated as 'rapture', 'enthusiasm' or 'happiness'. Piti arises also with akusala cittas, but when it is developed in samatha it is a jhana-factor. The 'Visuddhimagga' (IV, 94) states concerning piti:

...It refreshes (pinayati), thus it is happiness (piti). It has the characteristic of endearing (sampiyayana). Its function is to refresh the body and the mind; or its function is to pervade (thrill with rapture). It is manifested as elation. But it is of five kinds as minor happiness, momentary happiness, showering happiness, uplifting happiness, and pervading (rapturous) happiness.

According to the 'Visuddhimagga' (IV, 99) the jhana-factor piti is the 'pervading happiness' which is the root of absorption and comes by growth into association with absorption.

When piti is developed in samatha it inhibits the hindrance which is ill-will (vyapada). However, keen understanding is needed in order to know whether there is akusala piti which arises with attachment or kusala piti. Even when one thinks that there is wholesome enthusiasm about a meditation subject, there may be clinging. The jhana-factor piti takes an interest in the meditation subject without clinging. Wholesome piti which delights in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha or in another meditation subject refreshes the mind and then there is no aversion, no boredom as to kusala.

Another jhana-factor is sukha. This jhana-factor is not bodily pleasant feeling (sukha vedana), but it is somanassa or mental happy feeling. Sukha which is developed in samatha is happy feeling about a meditation subject. However, as we know, happy feeling arises also with attachment. Panna should know precisely when happy feeling is akusala and when it is kusala. The jhana-factor which is wholesome sukha inhibits the hindrances which are restlessness and worry (uddhacca and kukkucca). When there is wholesome happy feeling about a meditation subject there is no restlessness and no worry.

Piti and sukha are not the same. Sukha, which is translated as happiness, bliss, ease or joy, is happy feeling. Piti, which is translated as joy, rapture, zest, and sometimes also as happiness, is not feeling; it is not vedanakkhandha, but sankharakkhandha (the khandha which is all the cetasikas, except vedana and sanna). When reading the English translations, we have to find out from the context which cetasika is referred to, piti or sukha.

The 'Visuddhimagga' (IV, 100) states concerning the difference between happiness (piti) and bliss (sukha):

And wherever the two are associated, happiness (piti) is the contentedness at getting a desirable object, and bliss (sukha) is the actual experiencing of it when got. Where there is happiness there is bliss (pleasure); but where there is bliss there is not necessarily happiness. Happiness is included in the sankharakkhandha; bliss is included in the vedanakkhandha (feeling). If a man exhausted in a desert saw or heard about a pond on the edge of a wood, he would have happiness; if he went into the wood's shade and used the water, he would have bliss...
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby upekha » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:10 am

You can read the book "The Experience of Samadhi" free here at Google books.


http://books.google.lk/books?id=lQ_ZzFg ... hi&f=false


with metta
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:16 am

40. Pãti is zest, joy, or pleasurable interest. It is
derived from √ “pã”, to please, to delight. It is not a
kind of feeling (Vedanà) like Sukha. It is, so to say, its precursor.
Like the first two Jhàna factors, (Pãti) is also a mental
state found in both moral and immoral consciousness.
Creating an interest in the object is its characteristic. Pãti
inhibits Vyàpàda, illwill or aversion.

41. Sukha is bliss or happiness. It is a kind of pleasant
feeling. It is opposed to Uddhacca and Kukkucca (restlessness
and brooding). As Vitakka is the precursor of
Vicàra, so is Pãti the precursor of Sukha.
The enjoyment of the desired object is its characteristic.
It is like a king that enjoys a delicious dish.
Pãti creates an interest in the object, while Sukha
enables one to enjoy the object.
Like the sight of an oasis to a weary traveller, is Pãti.
Like drinking water and bathing therein, is Sukha.
This mental Sukha which should be differentiated
from Ahetuka Kàyika (physical) happiness is identical with
Somanassa. But it is a joy disconnected with material
pleasures. This pleasurable feeling is the inevitable outcome
of renouncing them (Niràmisa Sukha). Nibbànic
bliss is yet far more subtle than Jhànic bliss. There is no
feeling in experiencing the bliss of Nibbàna.

Page 70/71

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:38 am

upekha wrote:You can read the book "The Experience of Samadhi" free here at Google books.


http://books.google.lk/books?id=lQ_ZzFg ... hi&f=false


with metta
Upekha


That doesn't appear to be the whole book but rather a preview with most pages missing, including the interviews which are in the second half of the book.

:anjali:
Peace,
James
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby upekha » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:37 am

Mkoll wrote:
upekha wrote:You can read the book "The Experience of Samadhi" free here at Google books.


http://books.google.lk/books?id=lQ_ZzFg ... hi&f=false


with metta
Upekha


That doesn't appear to be the whole book but rather a preview with most pages missing, including the interviews which are in the second half of the book.

:anjali:



A few months ago, I read the whole book on line. In fact I sent the link to a friend. I managed to trace that email, and I find that more pages are available in this link. The interview with Jack Kornfield is available here as well.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=lQ_ZzFg ... &q&f=false

with metta
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby Babadhari » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:26 pm

on reading the article i see no mention of 'nimitta' nor 'absorbtion'. i thought that nimitta would naturally arise with the concentrated mind necessary for Jhana to occur. the article seeems to be more about craving sensation with respect to whoever wrote it
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: How to get into jhana

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:29 pm

cooran wrote:Hello all,

A short article from from Wildmind:

How to get into Jhana
http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practi ... into-jhana

With metta,
Chris


Thanks, an interesting article.
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