Anapana Almost Impossible now...

[Myotai]

Hi,

The more I try the worse it gets.

Over recent weeks the more I try to remain focused on the breath the more I experience sleepiness, lethargy, massive amounts of day-dreaming and so on...

Its actually getting to the point where I am feeling like its counter-productive and I may have to rethink my practice altogether. I am currently arising at 4am as usual and after some chanting often spending the next 30/40mins in a sort of foggy and hazy doze!

Anyone else experience this?


Thanks in advance!

M...

[Ben]

If you are getting up at 4am you should try and get to bed by 9pm.
Also, keep in mind that lethargy, sleepiness and distractedness are very normal responses to meditation.
This publication you might find useful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html
Kind regards,
Ben

[Myotai]

If you are getting up at 4am you should try and get to bed by 9pm.
Also, keep in mind that lethargy, sleepiness and distractedness are very normal responses to meditation.
This publication you might find useful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html
Kind regards,
Ben

Thanks Ben,

I know that I shouldn't really think in terms of progress, but I seem to be taking steps back rather than forward. I can remember a time where my mind dropped nicely into Anapanasati with little effort - this felt like the culmination of dedicated practice, where did that all go??

[Babadhari]

hi myotai

you might find the suggestions here helpful for increasing alertness when you sit

http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practi ... and-torpor

[Mkoll]

If you are getting up at 4am you should try and get to bed by 9pm.
Also, keep in mind that lethargy, sleepiness and distractedness are very normal responses to meditation.
This publication you might find useful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html
Kind regards,
Ben

Thanks Ben,

I know that I shouldn't really think in terms of progress, but I seem to be taking steps back rather than forward. I can remember a time where my mind dropped nicely into Anapanasati with little effort - this felt like the culmination of dedicated practice, where did that all go??

I have no intention of being flippant here but it went where everything else conditioned goes. Namely, that which arises and and passes away does so in dependence upon conditions.

There's a sutta that recommends not thinking: "May my [aggregate] be like this now as it was in the past!" I wouldn't try reviving what is dead or chasing after ghosts. Maybe change your approach or your meditation subject for awhile?

[Myotai]

If you are getting up at 4am you should try and get to bed by 9pm.
Also, keep in mind that lethargy, sleepiness and distractedness are very normal responses to meditation.
This publication you might find useful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html
Kind regards,
Ben

Thanks Ben,

I know that I shouldn't really think in terms of progress, but I seem to be taking steps back rather than forward. I can remember a time where my mind dropped nicely into Anapanasati with little effort - this felt like the culmination of dedicated practice, where did that all go??

I have no intention of being flippant here but it went where everything else conditioned goes. Namely, that which arises and and passes away does so in dependence upon conditions.

There's a sutta that recommends not thinking: "May my [aggregate] be like this now as it was in the past!" I wouldn't try reviving what is dead or chasing after ghosts. Maybe change your approach or your meditation subject for awhile?

Possibly, though feels a little deflating. Not really chasing after anything to be honest. But didn't factor in going into reverse either!

[suttametta]

You are not thinking enough. If you are sleepy, rest. When refreshed meditate only for a short spell. Think through the anapanasati Tetrads. Breathe in thinking X, Breathe out thinking X, etc. then get up and make some tea. Sit down and go again. Also you can think through the themes in Nandakovada Sutta in a very linear fashion.

[m0rl0ck]

I have had problems with this a couple of times in my meditation practice over the years. Just echoing what some others said, make sure you are getting enough sleep, make sure you are getting a good diet.
Other than that, splashing cold water on your face can help, sometimes you can concentrate your way out of drowsiness.
Sometimes though you just have to doggedly sit through things like this. In a few weeks or a few months or even a few days you will look back at this and wonder and be grateful that its over

[Goofaholix]

Is it the same if you sit in the evening before bed? If not switch to doing it in the evening for a while and see how that goes. A 4am start is pretty difficult for anyone who has a job, family etc.

[Khalil Bodhi]

Myotai,

I have been doing this for years and recommend all of the advice given as well as this: persevere. Just keep going. Do what is sensible, try changing times, doing more walking but stick to it. I admire your effort and commitment and I hope you realize what a wonderful thing you're doing for yourself and everyone else. It is rare. Anumodana!

[Ben]

Hi Myotai,
Something else I learned that I want to share with you that I think might be relevant to your situation...

I think we are conditioned to think that if we have an easy, pleasant, or rarified experience while meditating then it is 'good' and difficult experiences are 'not so good'. It's sometimes a hard lesson to realise that our experience of meditation whether it is pleasant, unpleasant or neutral is not a reliable indicator of progress.

What you are doing when you are practicing anapana is essentially retraining your mind. Much in the same way an athlete trains his or her body through physical exertions. It's no easy task for the athlete nor the meditator. The path will at times will appear long and arduous. Expect to get up close and personal with all the hindrances. Just keep going.

You might also wish to read Ledi Sayadaws gem the anapana dipani and using his instructions as a guide.

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh431-p.html

With metta,

Ben

[kirk5a]

Maybe you're bored with the breath, such that you just can't muster any concentration/energy. There are other meditation themes, you know. I don't see why it has to be the breath and nothing but the breath every time. Maybe you need something else right now. What about the "dhatus" (elements/properties) - earth, air, water, fire, space, consciousness?

[kmath]

It's gotta be that you're up at 4 am. I mean, go back to sleep and try again at 5 or 6. Or do some kind of yoga or chi gung in the morning to wake you up before sitting. Or do walking meditation in the morning.

Sitting never works for me in the AM either. Walk in the morning, sit at night.

[Kim OHara]

Sitting never works for me in the AM either. Walk in the morning, sit at night.

I'm the other way round but I do think walking meditation is a good solution to drowsiness in sitting.


Kim

[khlawng]

I know that I shouldn't really think in terms of progress, but I seem to be taking steps back rather than forward. I can remember a time where my mind dropped nicely into Anapanasati with little effort - this felt like the culmination of dedicated practice, where did that all go??

For me, this is always a sign that I am on to something. I call it regression-progression.
Its like the mind is trying to stop you and would go all out with all sorts of thoughts and hindrances just to see if you would give up.
Some are easy to overcome but others just almost breaks you!
Its our minds anyway and it knows all our weakness and how to manifest the temptations to stop you from progressing.
Anyway, for some reason, I always regress a step back and then progress 2 steps forward.
I am not suggesting that this is happening to you but maybe you want to just gear up and keep at it and keep up the fight.
Afterall you have nothing to loose.