Who experienced Jhana, and how?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
J0rrit
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Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by J0rrit »

Hello there,

I was asking myself yesterday how many laypeople actually experience Jhana? So my question would be who of you did experience Jhana or does experience Jhana on a regular basis? And what kind of practice are you doing? After what time and how much meditating did you experience it?
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James the Giant
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by James the Giant »

Probably nobody will tell. It's kind of a secret, sort of. If someone does tell, it easily looks like they're boasting, so folks usually keep it quiet.
Personally I know of.... counting... one (monk), two, three, four (monks too)... um... and no laypeople. I know some people who experience nimittas on a regular basis though.
I know two guys who claim to have jhanas, but to be honest they are wankers. Pretentious, self-centered, hard to talk with on a down-to-earth level.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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tiltbillings
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by tiltbillings »

J0rrit wrote:Hello there,

I was asking myself yesterday how many laypeople actually experience Jhana? So my question would be who of you did experience Jhana or does experience Jhana on a regular basis? And what kind of practice are you doing? After what time and how much meditating did you experience it?
It depends upon what you mean by jhana: http://www.leighb.com/jhanantp.htm Opinions vary as do experiences.

Jhana (no matter which variation one is talking about) is not impossible, but a lot of time can be needlessly spent trying to get them. Best is to find a retreat situation with an experienced teacher and then don't worry about getting jhana or not; just do the practice.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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waterchan
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by waterchan »

James the Giant wrote:Probably nobody will tell. It's kind of a secret, sort of. If someone does tell, it easily looks like they're boasting, so folks usually keep it quiet.
This. If I told you, how could anyone know I am not lying or hallucinating?
James the Giant wrote: I know two guys who claim to have jhanas, but to be honest they are wankers.
Yet another reason to keep it quiet! Being a wanker sucks.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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fivebells
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by fivebells »

J0rrit wrote:So my question would be who of you did experience Jhana or does experience Jhana on a regular basis? And what kind of practice are you doing? After what time and how much meditating did you experience it?
I experience first jhana on a regular basis, doing breath meditation as described by Thanissaro. I end up in second or third maybe once a week.

I don't think I'm bragging as waterchan and James believe... this doesn't seem like such a big deal. I haven't mastered it by any means: it's not solid enough to last for hours, and I can't enter it in really stressful situations. But it definitely fits the descriptions of jhana in the suttas, and is an extremely useful basis for insight work. I think this comes down to the different standards and experiences people label as jhana, as tiltbilling suggested. (Are these guys doing jhana? :thinking: )
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by lyndon taylor »

You also announced you were a stream enterer on another forum......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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fivebells
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by fivebells »

By the standards used in that context, I am. These days I have higher standards, though.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by tiltbillings »

fivebells wrote:By the standards used in that context, I am. These days I have higher standards, though.
Huh?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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fivebells
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by fivebells »

I assume the other forum Lyndon Taylor is referring to is dharmaoverground.org, which is organized around the teachings of Daniel Ingram, in particular his book Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, which gives much weaker criteria for the different stages of enlightenment than a more conventional teacher like Thanissaro does.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by lyndon taylor »

Sorry no, another forum, multi tradition general buddhism......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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fivebells
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by fivebells »

New Buddhist? Still, that's where I was coming from at the time.

Edit.
Last edited by fivebells on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DNS
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by DNS »

James the Giant wrote:Probably nobody will tell. It's kind of a secret, sort of. If someone does tell, it easily looks like they're boasting, so folks usually keep it quiet.
Personally I know of.... counting... one (monk), two, three, four (monks too)... um... and no laypeople. I know some people who experience nimittas on a regular basis though.
I know two guys who claim to have jhanas, but to be honest they are wankers. Pretentious, self-centered, hard to talk with on a down-to-earth level.
Somewhat true, however, by making those statements you also open up a claim that you are somehow authorized to determine someone else's jhana capacity.

Several reputable and famous monastics have claimed jhana abilities including Bhante Gunaratana, Ajahn Brahm, and Ayya Khema. If they are lying, it would be a parajika offense. And several lay people have too including Dipa Ma. There are some who no doubt get carried away in some delusions, but it (the teachings) should not have to be left completely silent, giving the allusion that it is not attainable at all. Perhaps there could be some middle way?
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Zom
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by Zom »

In the 1st jhana there is no painful bodily feeling (SN 48.40). So if someone thinks he attains 1st jhana, he should check if this is the case. While in jhana it is impossible for him to experience even slight bodily discomfort, not talking about gross one, like aching knee, itch, etc.. :reading:
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robertk
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by robertk »

Zom wrote:In the 1st jhana there is no painful bodily feeling (SN 48.40). So if someone thinks he attains 1st jhana, he should check if this is the case. While in jhana it is impossible for him to experience even slight bodily discomfort, not talking about gross one, like aching knee, itch, etc.. :reading:
Actually in first jhana it is impossible to experience any bodily feeling.
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DNS
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Re: Who experienced Jhana, and how?

Post by DNS »

robertk wrote: Actually in first jhana it is impossible to experience any bodily feeling.
And opinions vary on that, for example: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 974#p65498
http://www.leighb.com/jhanantp.htm
Ajahn Chah wrote:When the mind enters absorption it calms down and is stilled to a level where it is at its most subtle and skilful. Even if you experience sense impingement from the outside, such as sounds and physical sensations, it remains external and is unable to disturb the mind. You might hear a sound, but it won’t disturb your concentration. There is the hearing of the sound, but the experience is as if you don’t hear anything. There is awareness of the impingement but it’s as if you are not aware. This is because you let go. The mind lets go automatically. Concentration is so deep and firm that you let go of attachment to sense impingement quite naturally. The mind can absorb into this state for long periods. Having stayed inside for an appropriate amount of time, it then withdraws.

Sometimes, as you withdraw from such a deep level of concentration, a mental image (nimitta) of some aspect of your own body can appear. It might be a mental image displaying an aspect of the unattractive nature of your body that arises into consciousness. As the mind withdraws from the refined state, the image of the body appears to emerge and expand from within the mind. Any aspect of the body could come up as a mental image and fill up the mind’s eye at that point.

http://www.watpahnanachat.org/books/Aj% ... tation.pdf
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