an odd fear of jhana

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.
identification
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an odd fear of jhana

Postby identification » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:42 pm

I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?

thepea
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby thepea » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:51 pm

The reverse happened a little while ago serving on retreat, one of the senior teachers(85yrs old) who was sitting the course was sitting on a chair at the back of the meditation hall and he suddenly slumped over and was rocking back and forth a bit with his head down, we noticed this and were going to help him but someone said to leave him as he was most likely in a deep state of concentration. It turns out he was having a mild attack and could not ask for help. Eventually we tended to him but kinda scary. Yikes!

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Goofaholix
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:00 pm

identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?


If you fear it better to not try to do it, cultivate other aspects of the path for now.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

identification
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby identification » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:13 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?


If you fear it better to not try to do it, cultivate other aspects of the path for now.


Thanks. But did you mean to say ( fire, poison, arrows, wild animals, and all other physical dangers are incapable of harming you while in a jhana. You are invincible and protected by the devas!)). In which case, thank you so much! :anjali:

identification
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby identification » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:18 pm

thepea wrote:The reverse happened a little while ago serving on retreat, one of the senior teachers(85yrs old) who was sitting the course was sitting on a chair at the back of the meditation hall and he suddenly slumped over and was rocking back and forth a bit with his head down, we noticed this and were going to help him but someone said to leave him as he was most likely in a deep state of concentration. It turns out he was having a mild attack and could not ask for help. Eventually we tended to him but kinda scary. Yikes!



Wow, sounds scary. I guess it can go wrong either way. Best to just let go I guess!

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Goofaholix
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:34 pm

identification wrote:But did you mean to say ( fire, poison, arrows, wild animals, and all other physical dangers are incapable of harming you while in a jhana. You are invincible and protected by the devas!)).


No, I meant to say if you fear jhana then that fear will stop it from happening anyway so concentrate on other aspects of the path until you have the confidence to let go.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

santa100
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby santa100 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:51 pm

identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?

It's very difficult to get to such deep states of jhana where one no longer feels any sense disturbances. Usually it requires lots of training over a long period where the meditative strength builds up gradually. Because of this gradual process, one usually has a pretty good idea how long his jhana session usually lasts. And if one knows how long it takes, one can just tell their roomate or wife to not disturb them during that length of time. So no worries..

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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Mkoll » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:43 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
identification wrote:But did you mean to say ( fire, poison, arrows, wild animals, and all other physical dangers are incapable of harming you while in a jhana. You are invincible and protected by the devas!)).


No, I meant to say if you fear jhana then that fear will stop it from happening anyway so concentrate on other aspects of the path until you have the confidence to let go.

:goodpost:
Peace,
James

identification
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby identification » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:51 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
identification wrote:But did you mean to say ( fire, poison, arrows, wild animals, and all other physical dangers are incapable of harming you while in a jhana. You are invincible and protected by the devas!)).


No, I meant to say if you fear jhana then that fear will stop it from happening anyway so concentrate on other aspects of the path until you have the confidence to let go.



Which parts? Virtue?

identification
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby identification » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:56 pm

santa100 wrote:
identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?

It's very difficult to get to such deep states of jhana where one no longer feels any sense disturbances. Usually it requires lots of training over a long period where the meditative strength builds up gradually. Because of this gradual process, one usually has a pretty good idea how long his jhana session usually lasts. And if one knows how long it takes, one can just tell their roomate or wife to not disturb them during that length of time. So no worries..


Thanks. Much metta :anjali:

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Mkoll
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Mkoll » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:59 pm

identification wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:
identification wrote:But did you mean to say ( fire, poison, arrows, wild animals, and all other physical dangers are incapable of harming you while in a jhana. You are invincible and protected by the devas!)).


No, I meant to say if you fear jhana then that fear will stop it from happening anyway so concentrate on other aspects of the path until you have the confidence to let go.



Which parts? Virtue?

All the other parts of the path other than right concentration (jhana).
Peace,
James

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daverupa
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby daverupa » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:02 pm

Mkoll wrote:All the other parts of the path other than right concentration (jhana).


Indeed! There can even be seated satipatthana ahead of doing anapanasati. There is also a whole range of kayagatasati.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Goofaholix
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:12 am

Mkoll wrote:All the other parts of the path other than right concentration (jhana).


Yes, 7 out of 8 ain't bad.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

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Akhandha
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Akhandha » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:39 pm

identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?


oh, yes) some time ago I had the same fear and the same ideas))
but then this fear disappeared because I saw that in my case these states never last more than some hours.
I meditate at night, so by the morning I'm usually already alive :)

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waterchan
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby waterchan » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:10 pm

identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead.

Clearly someone has been reading / watching too much Ajahn Brahm :tongue:

When he told those stories I'm sure he intended it to be entertaining.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

lotus flower
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby lotus flower » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:17 am

hey it is not funny .... i fallened once into the bed when i did meditation with sitting on the edge of my bed.... i was lucky because the bed saved me. Better sitting on a chair in front of the bed... it is safe. Anybody can fall who attain deep samadhi. it is true. :pig:
S A M S A R A IS ONLY D U K K H A

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Akhandha
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Akhandha » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:43 am

identification wrote:I have this fear of going into jhana and waking up under the ground in a casket or in a hospital during an autopsy because my roommates and doctors thought I was dead. Anyone else? :D Sounds a little crazy I'm sure, but ajahn brahm told a story about one of his students going into jhana and the doctors and his wife thinking he was dead. Maybe I can wear a necklace that says I'm not dead I'm in a jhana. Your thoughts?


:clap: Yes, I really had all the same ideas, even about the necklace)))
Really, when I got there my mother thought I was dying, cried, shaked me and wanted to call a doctor. She said I was all pale, with my gaze fixed and without breathing. But very soon my mother and I came to see that it's not dangerous. So, the fear disappeared. Every time something (I don't know what, in fact) makes me return from there.

lotus flower wrote:hey it is not funny .... i fallened once into the bed when i did meditation with sitting on the edge of my bed.... i was lucky because the bed saved me. Better sitting on a chair in front of the bed... it is safe. Anybody can fall who attain deep samadhi. it is true. :pig:


Yes, I've just told about this "falling" in my first topic. That's why I do anapanasati always sitting on my bed, so that it wouldn't be possible to fall on the floor.
Last edited by Akhandha on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

lotus flower
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby lotus flower » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:10 am

monks how solve this problem? they go to group meditations.... there are no beds.... :D
S A M S A R A IS ONLY D U K K H A

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Akhandha
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby Akhandha » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:12 am

lotus flower wrote:monks how solve this problem? they go to group meditations.... there are no beds.... :D


:) yes. and they certainly can distinguish if one of them is dead or has got to a deep jhana))

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ryanM
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Re: an odd fear of jhana

Postby ryanM » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:00 pm

lotus flower wrote:
monks how solve this problem? they go to group meditations.... there are no beds.... :D
:) yes. and they certainly can distinguish if one of them is dead or has got to a deep jhana))


Ajahn Brahm has said that they'll be warm to the touch even though they're not breathing, responsive etc.


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