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The Great Jhana Debate - Page 17 - Dhamma Wheel

The Great Jhana Debate

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
ignobleone
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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tiltbillings
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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ignobleone
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Postby ignobleone » Sat May 05, 2012 4:39 pm


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reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Postby reflection » Sat May 05, 2012 4:57 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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tiltbillings
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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tiltbillings
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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TroyAsher
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Postby TroyAsher » Sun May 20, 2012 4:43 am

Greetings to all,

I have some questions I am hoping you might be able to help with. I was reading about the Arupa Jhanas in a book by Dean Hayson and then I did a search on Jhana and found Dhamma Wheel. I have read through all 17 pages here (no small feat :0) incase you had already discussed these points but i don't think so. Please pardon me if you have.

Reading about the progression of the jhanas, the different levels of absorption, in AN 9.35, i have the impression that there is (referring to Samatha Jhana practice) the cessation of concepts/conceptual thinking in the 2nd Jhana and then in the 8th Jhana the awareness of perceptions seems to be fading out "neither perception nor non-perception" and then in the 9th Jhana there is the cessation of percepts/perception.

My initial questions are about whether i have understood AN 9.35 and these jhana experiences correctly:
Is the 8th Jhana a twilight of perception where the meditator finds it hard to tell whether he/she is perceiving?
Is the 9th Jhana's cessation of perception a mind without conscious activity aka blank?

Regards,
Troy Asher

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Rui Sousa
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu May 24, 2012 11:28 pm

With Metta

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reflection
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Re: The Great Jhana Debate

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TroyAsher
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The Great Jhana Debate

Postby TroyAsher » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:21 am

Thank you Rui Sousa and reflection, your responses are appreciated. I take note of reflection’s comment that the use of the term Jhana for the four immaterial attainments appears in the later commentaries. I continue to use the term purely for ease rather than accuracy.

I have another question if you don’t mind. This is in regards to how people perceive the 6th Jhana. In Leigh Brasington’s article “Sharpening Manjushri’s Sword” he makes a point of noting that “The Base of Infinite Consciousness has been mistaken for achieving oneness with all consciousness.” Leigh goes onto explain that the 6th Jhana is entered by “realizing that in order to gaze at an infinite spaciousness (5th Jhana) you must have an infinite consciousness, and then shifting your attention to that consciousness.” I get the point. This “realization” is a logical deduction and leads the meditator to the 6th Jhana.

However, I have found that in my personal, subjective, experience, my perception and feeling of the 6th Jhana is that of “oneness with all consciousness.” I’d describe it as “the perception of interconnectedness with all”. I also like this latter term as it lacks the supernormal abilities sometimes associated with the word “oneness”. There is no ability to communicate with or control all things, just a feeling of being interconnected with all.

For those that have worked through the arupas, what has been your experience ?

Regards,

Troy

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Son
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Re: Tha jhana debate

Postby Son » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:29 am

A seed sleeps in soil.
It's cold and alone, hopeless.
Until it blooms above.

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:26 am

My anonymous cult warner seems to stop responding since I demanded sutta references which support his points/claims.
He said: 1)Sotapanna is an enlightened being. 2)Jhanas can only be reached by Sakadagami and above.
As far as I can remember, I know only Arahat does have something to do with jhana. So far I couldn't find any sutta which contains the relationship between Sakadagami/Anagami and jhanas. Maybe anyone can help?

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhism cult

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JhanaStream
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Re: Buddhism cult

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhism cult

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Re: Buddhism cult

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