Re: Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:01 pm
Hi Geoff
Thank you- I appreciate your efforts.
I would like to share my personal opinion and experience on vitakka vicara:
"But what are bodily fabrications? What are verbal fabrications? What are mental fabrications?"
"In-&-out breaths are bodily fabrications. Directed thought (vitakka) & evaluation (vicara) are verbal fabrications. Perceptions & feelings are mental fabrications." - MN44
When one practices mastery of jhana it is possible to absorb into these factors individually to see what they are. It is very difficult (other than piti, sukha and samadhi) to distinguish out vitakka vicara while they were mixed in together with the rest of the jhana factors. Experientially of vitakka vicara was more in line with what the above sutta said. Vitakka and vicara was more to do with verbal thought. ie it is not verbal though itself but to do with a fabrication, a preverbal mental 'movement' which was present in the first jhana. The feel of Vitakka was like a a racer perched on his starting blocks, while vicara was more like a brook lazily bubbling in this direction and that ready to explore.
Subsequently I have not found it necessary to look beyond this experience and this sutta to explain what it is.
with metta
RYB
Thank you- I appreciate your efforts.
I would like to share my personal opinion and experience on vitakka vicara:
"But what are bodily fabrications? What are verbal fabrications? What are mental fabrications?"
"In-&-out breaths are bodily fabrications. Directed thought (vitakka) & evaluation (vicara) are verbal fabrications. Perceptions & feelings are mental fabrications." - MN44
When one practices mastery of jhana it is possible to absorb into these factors individually to see what they are. It is very difficult (other than piti, sukha and samadhi) to distinguish out vitakka vicara while they were mixed in together with the rest of the jhana factors. Experientially of vitakka vicara was more in line with what the above sutta said. Vitakka and vicara was more to do with verbal thought. ie it is not verbal though itself but to do with a fabrication, a preverbal mental 'movement' which was present in the first jhana. The feel of Vitakka was like a a racer perched on his starting blocks, while vicara was more like a brook lazily bubbling in this direction and that ready to explore.
Subsequently I have not found it necessary to look beyond this experience and this sutta to explain what it is.
with metta
RYB