Unstable Mental Object

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.
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Annicca
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Unstable Mental Object

Postby Annicca » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:07 pm

Hello!

I am new in this anapanasatti meditation. Can any body tell me if the mental object is unstable, how can I overcome this? I 've tried to focus and I have passed the stages of torpor (although sometimes it might appears), I know the mental object is there, I can figure it but this is not stable and is not clear. How can I make it clear? :cry:
Annicca! Annicca! Annicca!

"This, monks, is the origination of form. This, the origination of feeling... perception... fabrications. This, the origination of consciousness." --SN 22.5, PTS: S iii 13, CDB i 863--Samadhi Sutta: Concentration

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James the Giant
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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby James the Giant » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:35 pm

I highly recommend a real live teacher. Or at least a good clear book in your native language.
The internet is not a good place for a beginner to get advice.

But, that said, my advice is in the beginning stages of anapanasati, you should be focusing on the sensation of breathing, not any mental objects yet. Mental objects can come later, once you can focus on your breath for minutes at a time without interruption.
And persist. If you are meditating 30 minutes a day, it may take months or more.
Don't try to run before you can walk.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Annicca
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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby Annicca » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:49 pm

It's very hard to find a live teacher here in South America. There are many teachers that teach meditation, but not the Buddhist meditation like anapanasati.

I was told that when working on anapanasati, you focus on the breathing touching the upper lip and that's the place called "mental object". Am I right? I am sorry to ask this stupid question.
Annicca! Annicca! Annicca!

"This, monks, is the origination of form. This, the origination of feeling... perception... fabrications. This, the origination of consciousness." --SN 22.5, PTS: S iii 13, CDB i 863--Samadhi Sutta: Concentration

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James the Giant
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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby James the Giant » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Annicca wrote:I was told that when working on anapanasati, you focus on the breathing touching the upper lip and that's the place called "mental object". Am I right? I am sorry to ask this stupid question.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you. In insight meditation, the kind I do, awareness of mental objects is a different thing. It's basically being aware of thoughts, emotions, things that happen in the mind.
I don't know about your definition, so I will let someone else try to help.

Good luck!

And just repeating, a live teacher is so important.
Do you know about the Goenka Vipassana meditation courses? There are a lot of them in South and Central America, in the countries I cut and pasted below
http://www.dhamma.org/en/bycountry/la/

Argentina Bolivia Brazil

Chile Colombia Costa Rica

Cuba Dominican Republic Ecuador

El Salvador Guatemala Mexico

Nicaragua Panama Paraguay

Peru Puerto Rico Uruguay

Venezuela
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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daverupa
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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby daverupa » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:03 pm

One method of anapanasati is to focus on this or that breathing-area, whether that's the nose, the upper lip, or the abdomen. The Vipassana movement is probably going to be the best source of information about this method, but you might also consider starting with something like the Anapanasati Sutta and asking questions about that description of practice, as they arise.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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reflection
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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:19 pm

Don't run after your object. If you chase it, it'll run away. Let it come to you, lure it in, just wait for it. You can't do this, or make this. It'll happen by itself if you let it. If anything, meditation shouldn't be a struggle.

This is my advise, but I'd also recommend following the teachings of one or more teachers. If that's not available offline, at least via the internet.

:anjali:

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Re: Unstable Mental Object

Postby theY » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:25 am

When you worry about unstable breath or mind while you meditate ānāpānasati, you are interrupt your meditation by nivaraṇa.

Whenever you just know the unstable moving of breath, and your unstable mind, but haven't care them. Then you just still go on to know at your tip of nose...

Your meditation will go to next step.
Lesson Relationship of Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha (10/31/2012)
http://tipitakanews.org/en/node/61


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