Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Greetings Mike,

mikenz66 wrote:Well, yes, but of course that's what everyone teaches, isn't it?

Well I don't know - I don't recall anyone else saying it, but then, I've not explored what everyone teaches... hence the question.

Thanks.

Metta,
Retro.

retrofuturist wrote:

mikenz66 wrote:Well, yes, but of course that's what everyone teaches, isn't it?

Well I don't know - I don't recall anyone else saying it, but then, I've not explored what everyone teaches... hence the question.

I've no idea which teachers you have talked to, read, or listened to who don't spend time discussing the development of right view, so I'm rather puzzled what you might be referring to.


Mike

Greetings Mike,

I've no idea which teachers you have talked to, read, or listened to who don't spend time discussing the development of right view, so I'm rather puzzled what you might be referring to.

I'm not talking so much about whether they promote right view or not... I was asking whether they teach this particular dynamic (or technique if you prefer)...

"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)

Metta,
Retro.

"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)

That is characteristic of all the vipassana teachers I have worked with.

tiltbillings wrote:

"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)

That is characteristic of all the vipassana teachers I have worked with.

To me it seems obvious that anyone worth listening teaches that. So I can't understand why the question would arise in the first place. Of course, I can't guarantee that every teacher would say those exact words, but in my experience it's a common theme.


Mike

mikenz66 wrote:

Mr Man wrote:Hi Mike
Well I was puzzled because I couldn't find any criticisms of Goenka in the thread. I certainly have questions - It seems that discussion is taboo though. That doesn't seem to be the case with other teachers/schools or not to the same degree anyway.

Sorry, I thought this was a "criticism":
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p220129" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mr Man wrote:

tiltbillings wrote: the Goenka practice is certainly inline with what the Buddha taught.

It is presented within the context of what the Buddha taught but the "technique" and format? The Goenka practice is not main stream Theravada.

I think it's quite valid to ask such questions, but you'd have to explain what is different between what Goenka is teaching and what you would advise otherwise for me to take them seriously.

As I said to Retro, there are a range of ways to structure practice (some not particularly structured), all of which, as far as I can understand, are equally compatible with the Suttas. If you think that certain teachers are teaching approaches incompatible with the suttas you'd have to be specific about the details.


Mike

Hi Mike, I don't think it is my position to advocate a specific technique or path of practice and to some extent I don't think a specific technique is needed. We can adjust our practice to suit the situation and to what we are trying to achieve (I don't mean pick and choose or do what we like). I think the power of our practice should not be in a specific technique but more in a mindset or foundation, which we build.

With the Goenka practice we can't take just the "sweeping technique" and say this is Vipassana meditation as handed down from the Buddha we have to take the whole package to understand what is happening. I don't think there is somthing fundamentally wrong with the technique, it might be a good and useful we just need to keep it in perspective and see it for what it is, which is an exercise in concentration/awareness. We also need to look at the package that it is presented in - you must comit to this paractice only.

Ajahn Sumedho talks about the sound of silence. He recommends it as a tool to allow our minds to calm down as a resting point. Some people say that this is the primordial sound, some say is the sound of the blood moving within the body or tinnitus but it really doesn't matter. Ajahn Sumedho is not adding to much to the "technique", accept for the poetic name, He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.

Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.

Sounds like Goenka.

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.

Sounds like Goenka.

From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".

Mr Man wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.

Sounds like Goenka.

From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".

And what does that mean?

Tilt another difference with the way that Goenka teaches is to implement it you need to comfit to the whole Goenka package.

Mr Man wrote:Tilt another difference with the way that Goenka teaches is to implement it you need to comfit to the whole Goenka package.

• comfit - candy containing a fruit or nut

That is interesting. I never heard that before.

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote:From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".

And what does that mean?

I'm off out now so I will come back to you but what does it mean to you?

Mr Man wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:

Mr Man wrote:From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".

And what does that mean?

I'm off out now so I will come back to you but what does it mean to you?

I'll wait till you get back.

comfit = commit

Mr Man wrote:Tilt another difference with the way that Goenka teaches is to implement it you need to comfit to the whole Goenka package.

While you are on retreat, that certainly makes sense, but I have known committed students of Goenka who have worked with other teachers and methods. What is your complaint here? You seem to want to find something wrong with the Goenka practice.