santa100 wrote:I'd suppose when one's reached such advanced stages of meditation, one'd be able to push beyond the physiological/mental ceiling of regular human being.
santa100 wrote:I'd suppose when one's reached such advanced stages of meditation, one'd be able to push beyond the physiological/mental ceiling of regular human being. If we only look at it from within the regular biological scope, none of the supernatural attainments of the Buddha and His noble disciples mentioned in many suttas would even be possible (the Chalabhinna of supernormal powers/psychic powers, clairaudience, telepathy, recollection of past lives, clairvoyance, ...)..
...through the practice of various meditations one might produce all manner of phantasms which receive culturally-supported explanations
"...With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, he directs and inclines it to the divine ear-element. He hears — by means of the divine ear-element, purified and surpassing the human — both kinds of sounds: divine and human, whether near or far. Just as if a man traveling along a highway were to hear the sounds of kettledrums, small drums, conchs, cymbals, and tom-toms. He would know, 'That is the sound of kettledrums, that is the sound of small drums, that is the sound of conchs, that is the sound of cymbals, and that is the sound of tom-toms.' In the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability — the monk directs and inclines it to the divine ear-element. He hears — by means of the divine ear-element, purified and surpassing the human — both kinds of sounds: divine and human, whether near or far ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html )
Retrocognition and clairvoyance are different than flying through the air, walking on water, or breathing through skin that doesn't breathe. One group requires extra-sensory perception to be real while the other group requires that the laws of physics or the laws of the human body be broken as if we're in the matrix.
santa100 wrote:But from Ajahn Lee, Ajahn Chah, and especially the Buddha? Wonder what the odds of that might be..
Pretty good, since the first two names are exploring the same materials we are, and those materials were themselves shepherded to us via that cultural matrix to which I referred
SarathW wrote:Is it possible air to get in to our body if you are not breathing?
What I meant was can't air go through your nostrils to lungs even if you are not breathing, as the same way air getting to a room?
santa100 wrote: So basically my position is to "wait and see" instead of immediately conclude it as nonsense..
Zom wrote:Sutta SN 36.11 says about "in-out breathing" and not about "perception of in-out breathing". So yes, breath completely stops in 4th jhana. As well as all mental formations completely stop in sannya-vedaita-nirodha. And as all defilements stop when reaching arahantship ,)
"And I have also taught the step-by-step cessation of fabrications.
- When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased.
- When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thought & evaluation have ceased.
- When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has ceased.
- When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased.
- When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has ceased.
- When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space has ceased.
- When one has attained the dimension of nothingness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness has ceased.
- When one has attained the dimension of neither-perception nor non-perception, the perception of the dimension of nothingness has ceased.
- When one has attained the cessation of perception & feeling, perception & feeling have ceased.
- When a monk's effluents have ended, passion has ceased, aversion has ceased, delusion has ceased.
Zom wrote:Well, in the 4th jhana you actually can see if there is a breathing or not since this is not arupa-loka, where you no longer perceive forms.
[ . . . ] while exercising, the level of carbon dioxide in the blood increases due to increased cellular respiration by the muscles, which activates carotid and aortic bodies and the respiration center, which ultimately cause a higher rate of respiration.
During rest, the level of carbon dioxide is lower, so breathing rate is lower. This ensures an appropriate amount of oxygen is delivered to the muscles and other organs. It is important to reiterate that it is the buildup of carbon dioxide making the blood acidic that elicits the desperation for a breath much more than lack of oxygen.
[ . . . ] there have been instances where people have survived for as long as two hours without air; this is only possible when submerged in cold water, as this triggers the mammalian diving reflex as well as putting the subject into a state of suspended animation.
If a healthy person were to voluntarily stop breathing (i.e. hold his or her breath) for a long enough amount of time, he or she would lose consciousness, and the body would resume breathing on its own. Because of this one cannot commit suicide with this method, unless one's breathing was also restricted by something else (e.g. water, see drowning).
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