Off Sensation....

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.
Myotai
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Off Sensation....

Postby Myotai » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:13 pm

Hi all,

After around 20mins of Anapana, I experience the sensation of no longer being physically aware of my body. Its not unpleasant and feels like what I imagine one of those 'flotation tanks' feels like.

Is this a good time to move from the breath to something like the Goenka method or maybe a focus for Jhana? Or should it be treated as any other sensations and of no consequence?

Thanks,

M...

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daverupa
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby daverupa » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:25 pm

But you're aware of the breath, yes? Because being aware of the body is part of the first tetrad, but not really necessary for the other tetrads. Why not continue with anapanasati, perhaps the second tetrad?
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Goofaholix
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:46 pm

How do you know you are still alive? You must be experiencing something, when you identify what that is place your attention on that.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

Myotai
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby Myotai » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:44 pm

daverupa wrote:But you're aware of the breath, yes? Because being aware of the body is part of the first tetrad, but not really necessary for the other tetrads. Why not continue with anapanasati, perhaps the second tetrad?


Aware of my breath yes, but only when I move my attention to it. Otherwise it's a sort of open, wide sense of being aware.

It might sound daft but it feels like I am looking over the edge of a cliff, a very very high cliff, or free falling maybe.

M...

Myotai
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby Myotai » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Goofaholix wrote:How do you know you are still alive? You must be experiencing something, when you identify what that is place your attention on that.


So the spaciousness I describe, that should be the object of my attention?

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daverupa
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby daverupa » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:00 pm

Myotai wrote:Aware of my breath yes, but only when I move my attention to it. Otherwise...


Well, certainly, one is only aware of what is in awareness.

But the text says "breathing in, he trains... breathing out, he trains..." and this for each tetrad. So, when the breath isn't in awareness, I'm not sure that's anapanasati any longer; it sounds like it might have become some sort of seated cittanupassana at that point, where you're aware "this is an expansive mind, easy to direct" or "this is a vacuous mind, sluggish and muted" and so forth.

That's part of experiencing citta, so it's third-tetrad stuff either way, but you'd need to have it alongside the breath for it to be anapanasati, and you'd need to be experiencing and then gladdening it, not experiencing it and then falling off the cliff into breathless limbo.

:anjali:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Ben
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:05 pm

Myotai,
May I recommend you remain focused on the breath. Anything else, however rarified, is just a distraction.
Kind regards,
Ben
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Goofaholix
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Re: Off Sensation....

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:12 pm

Myotai wrote:So the spaciousness I describe, that should be the object of my attention?


The "spaciousness" is probably just one thing among many that are happening at any moment in time, any of those things will be worthy of awareness, don't think to yourself I feel spacious so I don't need to be aware, you need to sharpen your awareness.

If you can't feel your breath then give more energy and effort to feeling it, if you can feel your breath then you can feel your body by definition.

Sometimes the mind likes to kid itself that wallowing in a sense of unawareness is a sign of progress.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya


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