My Vipassana Experience & Questions

[BodhiTreeHugger]

I had had some exposure to other meditation techniques, "energy practices", chakras and the like before I took my 10-day course. I have since left all of that behind and am 100% scientific minded now.

During the course, I started feeling this ability to move energy with my awareness throughout the body. I sort of imagined that perhaps this energy could heal or rejuvenate the body and mind and so I worked it all around the body with high intensity. I "opened every chakra" and focused it intensely at the base of the spine / perineum / prostate / anus area (who knows why I focused here). I started to feel like my whole body was in a vortex of energy. Then tight bands of energy started to unravel from the base of my spine and into all corners of the body and mind. Cool right? Well, after the retreat the unraveling continued and I experienced the whole "dark night" phenomenon and "kundalini awakening / syndrome". It got a little overwhelming and I had my mom stay with me for a couple of weeks until it calmed down.

I am doing great now. Still practicing and enjoying the benefits of practice. Deeper breath, anxiety and depression gone, more confidence, feeling more present and deeply rooted in the body, more effective socializing and spreading love and harmony to those I encounter. It is truly a wonderful technique.

A couple of questions:

1. I still experience nearly continuously odd sensations in the head, face, jaw and neck areas. These sensations feel like energy being pulled out of me, sometimes it gets going and sort of "spirals out" kind of like a rope being pulled apart. What is this? I remain equanimous to them but I am ignorant as to their nature and so experience distraction and some amount of suffering / confusion towards them. What are these sensations and how do I get rid of them?

2. How do I tell the difference between real sensations and imagined ones? If these sensations are imaginary, then are they covering up sensation "as it is" and replacing it with "how I want them to be"? Goenka warns against this numerous times. If these sensations are imaginary then perhaps they are a "fetter" or a "hindrance" to my progress on the path of insight?

I would REALLY love to have a teacher I could go to. Please let me know how to get connected to the right one who can help me on the path.

My goal is freedom from suffering. My purpose is to prevent the generation and spreading of negativity and to work to spread peace, love and happiness and teach others the way out of suffering. I take refuge in Buddha, Dharma & Sangha. May all beings be happy.

Thank you for any advice!

[cooran]

Hello BodhiTreeHugger,

This site may be of use. If your 10 day Vipassana course was a Goenka one, there are often monthly local practice days for Old Students.
http://www.dhamma.org

With metta,
Chris

[BodhiTreeHugger]

Thank you! Yes, I already attend the group meditations at my local Vipassana Hall. I even spoke with the teacher there and he gave some good advice, but I am looking for more.

[Goofaholix]

It looks to me like you are trying to retrofit what you learned in the Goenka course into what you've been practising in the past. Goenka goes to great lengths to discourage this, the practice has nothing to do with energy it is about awareness and equanimity using changing bodily sensation as the primary object.

I suggest you refresh your understanding of the instructions and get confident with how they work before thinking about incorporating other ideas.

1. I still experience nearly continuously odd sensations in the head, face, jaw and neck areas. These sensations feel like energy being pulled out of me, sometimes it gets going and sort of "spirals out" kind of like a rope being pulled apart. What is this? I remain equanimous to them but I am ignorant as to their nature and so experience distraction and some amount of suffering / confusion towards them. What are these sensations and how do I get rid of them?

This is just sensation, just observe it, don't try to get rid of it, don't try to enhance it, don't try to find an explanation for it, just observe it in order to see how it changes in order to understand how the mind is involved in this process.

2. How do I tell the difference between real sensations and imagined ones? If these sensations are imaginary, then are they covering up sensation "as it is" and replacing it with "how I want them to be"? Goenka warns against this numerous times. If these sensations are imaginary then perhaps they are a "fetter" or a "hindrance" to my progress on the path of insight?

Any sensation you experience in your body is real if you are awake and not dreaming, ie if you notice it then it's real. What you should look for though is evidence that the mind is trying to create experiences, look for this craving in the mind and let go of it, don't feed it.

[Sanjay PS]

It looks to me like you are trying to retrofit what you learned in the Goenka course into what you've been practising in the past. Goenka goes to great lengths to discourage this, the practice has nothing to do with energy it is about awareness and equanimity using changing bodily sensation as the primary object.

I suggest you refresh your understanding of the instructions and get confident with how they work before thinking about incorporating other ideas.

1. I still experience nearly continuously odd sensations in the head, face, jaw and neck areas. These sensations feel like energy being pulled out of me, sometimes it gets going and sort of "spirals out" kind of like a rope being pulled apart. What is this? I remain equanimous to them but I am ignorant as to their nature and so experience distraction and some amount of suffering / confusion towards them. What are these sensations and how do I get rid of them?

This is just sensation, just observe it, don't try to get rid of it, don't try to enhance it, don't try to find an explanation for it, just observe it in order to see how it changes in order to understand how the mind is involved in this process.

2. How do I tell the difference between real sensations and imagined ones? If these sensations are imaginary, then are they covering up sensation "as it is" and replacing it with "how I want them to be"? Goenka warns against this numerous times. If these sensations are imaginary then perhaps they are a "fetter" or a "hindrance" to my progress on the path of insight?

Any sensation you experience in your body is real if you are awake and not dreaming, ie if you notice it then it's real. What you should look for though is evidence that the mind is trying to create experiences, look for this craving in the mind and let go of it, don't feed it.

Getting rid of a particular kind of sensation or wanting a particular kind of a sensation , is a regress in our efforts and not a progress .It shows that we have not really understood what the Buddha wanted to convey . Goenkaji goes at lengths and pains in mentioning that even if one does a century of 10 day courses , it will be of no help if one does not strive to develop equanimity based on the changing nature of sensations experienced from time to time . Rather our problems will compound rapidly , since the mind now further gets reinforced in conditioning of push and pull of our ignorance based on our " perceived " likes and dislikes .

Doing more courses will really help , provided awareness of the changing nature of sensations and the building of equanimity goes hand in hand together . If these two aspects are well in balance , bhavana mahapanna ( the cultivating of wisdom/deep feeling ) irrespective of our own troubles will bound to gain strength and we start leading a that much more contended life , little by little

sanjay

[lingsu]

I had very many unpleasant experience too over the years - I attempted numerous ways to struggle to get rid of them. They never worked. They come and go on their schedule and have minimal concern on how the mind wishes.

After long time struggle this way, the mind eventually gave up with hopeless & exhaustion. the insight arises that nobody controls them. We are not in control of anything. it happens on its term and end on its term.
Even it is extremely uncomfortable, there is not much we can do about it except living with it with peace.

[Sanjay PS]

I had very many unpleasant experience too over the years - I attempted numerous ways to struggle to get rid of them. They never worked. They come and go on their schedule and have minimal concern on how the mind wishes.

After long time struggle this way, the mind eventually gave up with hopeless & exhaustion. the insight arises that nobody controls them. We are not in control of anything. it happens on its term and end on its term.
Even it is extremely uncomfortable, there is not much we can do about it except living with it with peace.

Great wisdom Sir .

May all of us develop such wisdom and share it with all beings .

sanjay

[BodhiTreeHugger]

Thank you all so much for the great advice. I accept that the sensations are as real as any sensation. Also, I want to completely let go of my past spiritual / meditation / energy practice and embrace the Dhamma completely and scientifically.

I want to learn from this experience. Somehow, these sensations got there during the Vipassana retreat. They weren't there before the retreat. In respect of the Dhamma, am I correct to assume that the sensations are there because I put them there? They are my Kamma are they not? Would it be good for me to think back to the retreat and recognize where I was practicing with craving, aversion or delusion and see exactly how those unwholesome reactions resulted in implanting these unwholesome sensations in me? Do I experience them now with any attempt to learn how they work, are strengthened or weakened? Is there anything I need to figure out regarding the experience or is this compulsion to figure and analyze itself an unwholesome craving or aversion or delusion?

I spoke to a VIpassana teacher via email and he had this to say:

It is probable that during your 10 Goenka course, some energy got stuck, and so energy was not able to flow freely. It is now expressing as these various sensations in the upper part of the body. Energy is the vitality that enables activity to take place in the mind and body. Too much concentration in one area, such as certain parts of the body, reduces energy elsewhere. Levels of energy vary according to conditions/circumstances. I would suggest you move the body – such as fast walking/dance/yoga/jogging. This will enable the energy to flow more freely up and down the down the whole body. Harmony then can restore itself. If you sit, sit for a short period of minutes, experience the backside contact with the cushion or chair seat to enable body and sensations to be felt elsewhere in the body. If sitting feels like struggle or will power, or simply difficult, then move mindfully out of the posture into movement. Be patient. The sense of total well- being of the body will come. The Buddha gave equal emphasis to all four postures – sit, walk, stand, recline. Do develop the other postures as well as mindfulness in the small events of daily life. Imagination of vortex, rotation, may have inadvertently contributed to congestion of sensations. Gently move sensations directly up from the soles feet to the top of the head, and then back to the feet. Take about two to five minutes to go through one length of the body. No will power. Gentle and relaxed. Maximum 10 to 15 minutes per session, then aerobics. There is no difference between imagined sensations and real sensations. Imagination is not problem.

[Modus.Ponens]

Is there anything I need to figure out regarding the experience or is this compulsion to figure and analyze itself an unwholesome craving or aversion or delusion?

Yes. You are speaking as if you are a fixed entity that could not have these strange sensations. They seem alien to you to the point of you thinking about them as imaginary, or implanted. I think the main problem is that you see your self as a permanent, solid and independent entity. And the "me" you identify with has its individual sensations that characterize it. The truth is that "When this arises, that arises. When this ceases, that ceases." There is no set of sensations that cannot be felt by you under the right conditions. And that's all it was: you were under very different conditions and you got very different experiences. They are no less real. The only unreal thing here is the idea you have of yourself as being something independent of conditions and causality.

Does this make sense?

[BodhiTreeHugger]

Is there anything I need to figure out regarding the experience or is this compulsion to figure and analyze itself an unwholesome craving or aversion or delusion?

Yes. You are speaking as if you are a fixed entity that could not have these strange sensations. They seem alien to you to the point of you thinking about them as imaginary, or implanted. I think the main problem is that you see your self as a permanent, solid and independent entity. And the "me" you identify with has its individual sensations that characterize it. The truth is that "When this arises, that arises. When this ceases, that ceases." There is no set of sensations that cannot be felt by you under the right conditions. And that's all it was: you were under very different conditions and you got very different experiences. They are no less real. The only unreal thing here is the idea you have of yourself as being something independent of conditions and causality.

Does this make sense?

Yes, intellectually. I know there is no self. I am living in forgetfulness of this truth. I have had Anatta experiences but they were fleeting. Any advice on attaining permanent Anatta?

I am intrigued by some things I have read about Zen practice. I wonder if I should try it or stick with Vipassana?

[Modus.Ponens]

Is there anything I need to figure out regarding the experience or is this compulsion to figure and analyze itself an unwholesome craving or aversion or delusion?

Yes. You are speaking as if you are a fixed entity that could not have these strange sensations. They seem alien to you to the point of you thinking about them as imaginary, or implanted. I think the main problem is that you see your self as a permanent, solid and independent entity. And the "me" you identify with has its individual sensations that characterize it. The truth is that "When this arises, that arises. When this ceases, that ceases." There is no set of sensations that cannot be felt by you under the right conditions. And that's all it was: you were under very different conditions and you got very different experiences. They are no less real. The only unreal thing here is the idea you have of yourself as being something independent of conditions and causality.

Does this make sense?

Yes, intellectually. I know there is no self. I am living in forgetfulness of this truth. I have had Anatta experiences but they were fleeting. Any advice on attaining permanent Anatta?

I am intrigued by some things I have read about Zen practice. I wonder if I should try it or stick with Vipassana?

The usual advice is to sit in meditation and observe that everything you regard as "you" is impermanent and subject to conditioning. The 4 frames of refference can be used and seen as impermanent and subject to conditioning. Therefore, there is nothing that can be regarded as a self in them (or separate from them). The same with the 5 agregates. The same with the six sense bases. Try one of them first and see if it works for you. If not, try another line of questioning.

I think the complete understanding of anatta comes only with arahatship. But a stream winner doesn't believe in a self because of the partial experience of anatta. So I think it's not as daunting as the full experience of anatta an arahat has.

EDIT: Allan Watts gives an interesting perspective. He says that what we identify particular sensations as the "self". Like if you recall a good smell, you have a pleasant sensation. Or if you recall a rock music, you recognise the associated sensations. The "me" is the same thing. When ou think about your self, you have sensations that you define as "you" _ or as "yours". If you gradualy let go of those sensations it becomes easier to experience anatta.

[Goofaholix]

Somehow, these sensations got there during the Vipassana retreat. They weren't there before the retreat. In respect of the Dhamma, am I correct to assume that the sensations are there because I put them there? They are my Kamma are they not?

Those sensations were there all along it's simply that you weren't paying attention and/or your mind wasn't sensitive enough to be aware of them.

Sometimes they will indicate a process of tension releasing itself, Goenka talks about this in terms of sankharas coming to the surface.

It's best to watch them objectively without trying to interfere and usually they will just dissipate over time. However if they do get too uncomfortable or bothersome you could make changes in the way you are practising to see the effect and learn more about them, but don't make these changes with aversion or the attitude that you are trying to get rid of something.

[Soe Win Htut]

A couple of questions:

1. I still experience nearly continuously odd sensations in the head, face, jaw and neck areas. These sensations feel like energy being pulled out of me, sometimes it gets going and sort of "spirals out" kind of like a rope being pulled apart. What is this? I remain equanimous to them but I am ignorant as to their nature and so experience distraction and some amount of suffering / confusion towards them. What are these sensations and how do I get rid of them?

2. How do I tell the difference between real sensations and imagined ones? If these sensations are imaginary, then are they covering up sensation "as it is" and replacing it with "how I want them to be"? Goenka warns against this numerous times. If these sensations are imaginary then perhaps they are a "fetter" or a "hindrance" to my progress on the path of insight?

Let me Advice to you lately.

Goenkaji taught meditation is mindfulness with equanimity. But equanimity comes from rIght understanding.

Right understanding is based on right thinking or right reflection which should be concerned with the Truth which is the truth of the created truths, to-use-only, to-do-only, to-know-only, and to-experience-only. It means to change from attachment to detachment, and wrong understanding to right understanding.

In order to be using-only, doing-only,knowing-only, and experiencing-only without mental rejecting and attaching, it is necery to understand and think correctly about the original truth, the present momentary impermanent nature (dukkha) appearing and disappearing constantly on account of misunderstanding the created truth (self) as reality and attachment to it.

The present momentary impermanent nature (dukkha) will appear and disappear constantly by the power of action with misunderstanding and attachment. That process of appearing and disappearing is known as the Law of dependent origination.

That constant process will continue until enlightenment by the practice of middle way, the practice of morality, concentration(mindfulness) and insight(wisdom) meditation.

Insight meditation should cover the middle way(noble eightfold path) which is Magga Sacca.

Insight mediation should deal with the law of dependent origination(samudaya sacca & dukkha sacca)

What is The Middle way?

- The Middle way is abandoning the two extremes; one extreme of hatred and other extreme of craving.

- The Middle way is Neither Rejecting Nor Attaching to the Created truths. It is free from Disliking(desire to reject) and Liking(desire to attach).

- The Middle way is “seeing-only”, “hearing-only”, “smelling-only”, “tasting-only”, touching-only” and “thinking-only”. That means to use-only, to know-only, to be mindful-only, to experience-only of the Created truths.

What is Created truths?

- Created truths are Created Truth is something, everything, someone, everyone, individual, ideas, mind and body that we currently know. Created Truths are concepts, dualistic nature – hotness/coldness, softness/tightness, hardness/softness, rising/falling, pain/pleasure, like/dislike, yin/yang, male/female, sick/healthy, young/old, life/death, near/far, long/short, black/white, places, time and space etc. . Thus impermanence of something such as hotness, coldness, breathing, sensation, feeling, thoughts, emotion are just created truth as well.

Created Truth is conventional truth, or relative truth. Created Truths are limited, not perfect, not constant and not permanent . They are just temporary. They will change after some period. They are not true for constant moment.

Created Truths are not true but they seem to be real only because of ignorance of the Original Reality, the Original Truth(Ever-new Impermanent nature).

- What is necessary in order to follow the middle way?

In order to follow the middle way, it is necessary to neither reject nor attach the created truths, thinking them as reality or real importance. In order to neither reject nor attach the created truths, there are 2 factors to be developed at every moment about the created truth.

First factor is to be mindful the created truth, whatever happening in our mind & body which is most prominent at the present moment. It means to develop mindfulness.

Second factor is to develop right understanding or right contemplating.

- What is right understanding? or right contemplating?

Right understanding is realizing the truth. It realizes both what is not real and what is real.

It is also two role of realizing the truth. One is realizing the created truths as created truths which are fake(not real).

That realizing is right understanding of what is not real as what is not real.

Moreover it is necessary to have right understanding which can understand what is real as what is real.

Created truths are not real but they appear to be real because of misunderstanding (ignorance) of the Original Truth.

Created truth are changing time after time but at every moment of created truths seeming to happen, misunderstanding them as reality is constantly happening. Although created truth are changing one time after another.

Misunderstanding them as reality is constantly happening. Constant happening of misunderstanding is Second Noble Truth the Buddha taught (Samudaya Sacca).

Right understanding is realizing the misunderstanding the created truths as reality. Misunderstanding is one of the original truth which is constantly happening until enlightenment or right understanding. It is within the nature of ever-new impermanent nature (Sankhara).

Understanding the misunderstanding as misunderstanding is right understanding. (Realizing the misunderstanding as misunderstanding is right realizing.)

For example, if pain arise, be mindful of the pain. Then, realize it is just created truth but it seems to be real for some period. Moreover, contemplate at the moment of pain happening (seeming to be happening) misunderstanding it as reality for some period is constantly happening.

Please realize/contemplate the truth of the Created truths; it is
1. Created truths are neither to be rejected nor attached, thinking them as real existence or real importance.
2. Created truths are to be using-only, knowing-only, or experiencing-only.
3. Created truths are just fake but they seem to be real on account of ignorance (Not understanding) of the Original truth(Ever-New Vanishing Nature).
(i.e Contemplate/realize that the Misunderstanding the created truths as reality is happening at every moment until enlightenment).

After it, pleasure or thought or good or bad feeling/sensation or hotness/coldness-etc, will arise. While arising, be mindful to it and so do realize/contemplate it .

Without right understanding, there never will be eqanimity.

For more understanding: I would like you listen the meditation talks by Thabarwa Sayadaw U Ottamasara:
https://app.box.com/s/8kzwa3jauvdfsr7gkhu6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with kind regards,
Soe Win Htut

[Rance Mance]

I have had similar experiences since practising Vipassana.
I get surges of energy going through my body to the point it raises me up (not elavated). I also get extreme tension release from different parts of my body including, face, neck, back and front. I assume the tension releases are sankharas but am not entirely sure.

[subaru]

2. How do I tell the difference between real sensations and imagined ones?

WOW dude ..... in my opinion for someone to ask this question, he is very special..

I do not want to provide the answer, because I do not know if my answer is real or not... but my advice is keep asking that question until you find the answer..... i believe that a person who continue to ask this question is analogous to a driver who keep adjusting the steering of his car depending on the road condition ahead, the likelihood for him to reach his destination is high.. as opposed to a person who thought he already know what is real is likened to a person who see a straight road ahead, lock the steering and goes to sleep, hoping that the road ahead will be straight forever.

metta dude.