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Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right? - Dhamma Wheel

Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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smokey
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Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby smokey » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:24 pm

As I came to understand a long time ago that insight knowledge or ultimate truth is a non-conceptual knowledge. I have not gained any insight knowledge so far but I presume that my previous statement is correct. Right?

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IanAnd
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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby IanAnd » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:12 am

What do you mean by "non-conceptual knowledge"?

All knowledge is conceptual, yes? Otherwise, how else would you know it?

Insight knowledge is experiential in that like banging one's finger with a hammer, one knows from experience that one has just banged one's finger. In other words, there is no question about it. It is directly experienced truth.

Insight knowledge of the working of the five aggregates is directly experienced "knowingness" which validates, for the one who perceives it, the Buddha's description of the five aggregates (or whatever other conceptual framework is revealed by Buddhadhamma).
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:06 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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catmoon
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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby catmoon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:08 am

You might also want to to look at what you mean by "conceptual". For instance, just because a thought is nonverbal doesn't necessarily mean it is nonconceptual.

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby pink_trike » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:54 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:27 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby zavk » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:04 am

With metta,
zavk

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catmoon
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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby catmoon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:27 am

You got me thinking about thought. It comes in flavors.

There is verbal thought, formed of words.

There is visual thought. For instance, I can visualize geometric forms moving and changing shape.

There is auditory thought. I can recall Beethoven's Fifth and even create variations on it.

The other senses I'm not so clear on, but I can recall touch and taste sensations with some accuracy.


I wonder if there are more types of thought. Is an emotion a thought?

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:37 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby pt1 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:14 am


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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:21 am


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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby pt1 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:27 am


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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:35 pm

Here is one source,
http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=aIO ... q=&f=false

try IV Retracing an ancient debate, p. 96. Then flip down to page 110, ref. to de la Vallee Poussin's article, parts of which are appended at the end.

And this is only sourcing the Pali sources. If one really wants to delve into it, there are more. Gombrich botches his read of the Chinese version of Susima sutta.

There is also coverage in Schmithausen, L. (1981): “On Some Aspects of Descriptions or Theories of ‘Liberating Insight’ and ‘Enlightenment’ in Early Buddhism”, pp. 199-250, in Studein zum Jainismus und Buddhismus, Bruhn, K & Wezler, A, eds, Franz Steiner Verlag: Wiesbaden.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby seanpdx » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:38 pm

Just to add some suggestions for extra reading material, along with Gombrich's "How Buddhism Began" (2nd ed):

Gombrich, "What the Buddha Thought"
Gombrich, "Theravada Buddhism", 2nd ed
Wynne, "The Origin of Buddhist Meditation"
Bronkhorst, "The Two Traditions of Meditation in Ancient India"

And... I'm probably forgetting a couple. Schmithausen/1981, which Pannasikhara mentioned, would definitely be a good read.

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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby dhamma follower » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:18 am


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Re: Insight knowledge is non-conceptual knowledge. Right?

Postby smokey » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:48 pm



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