Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
farmer
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:42 am

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by farmer »

I generally try to focus on the part of the path that is right in front of me, and not speculate about things beyond my ken, but this discussion raises questions about the way I understand the suttas. RYB wrote:
It can be discussed with someone who has an initial understanding of dukkha (that is that every moment which arises is dukkha)- a discussion on how that dukkha comes to a cessation.
Is it really the case that every moment which arises is dukkha? Do arahats experience the arising of the aggregates? Do they suffer when they do?

From the Kotthita Sutta:
"And through this line of reasoning one may know how the eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye, but whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there....

That line of reasoning is:
There is an eye in the Blessed One. The Blessed One sees forms with the eye. There is no desire or passion in the Blessed One. The Blessed One is well-released in mind.
The Blessed One sees form with the eye, but he is well-released because there is no desire or passion in the Blessed One. That doesn't sound like pitch-black cessation. It sounds to me like the arahat is unbound by the elimination of the mind's reactiveness -- in other words, the defilements. The arahat sees forms with the eye, but because he has, through insight, eliminated the craving and clinging that would lead to further becoming, he is does not suffer from what he sees. Is that, rather than a black vacuum, nibbana?

If suffering only ends with cessation of experience, was the Buddha suffering when he was aware of his surroundings?

From the Sakalika Sutta
Now at that time his foot had been pierced by a stone sliver. Excruciating were the bodily feelings that developed within him — painful, fierce, sharp, wracking, repellent, disagreeable — but he endured them mindful, alert, & unperturbed.
Again, it sounds like the Buddha was fully aware of unpleasant feelings, but unperturbed because he had severed the bonds of craving and clinging which would allow those feelings to disturb his mind.

I guess this is how I understand nibbana: an elimination not of experience, but of the defilements which cause us to concoct suffering out of experience. Suffering is optional, a second, unnecessary arrow with which we shoot ourselves. We are trying to uproot those defilements, not experience itself. Am I wrong about this?
Parth
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Parth »

Dear Geoff,

Actually trying to describe / discuss / nibbana in words is something which I would avoid since it cant be done and is not condusive to practise.

Metta :namaste:

Parth
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Kenshou »

That seems like a bit of a cop-out. Discussion has it's limitations but it's not useless. Furthermore, looking at the suttas, it doesn't seem like the Buddha was hesitant to speak about nibbana.
Parth
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Parth »

:anjali:
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by rowyourboat »

Hmm.. It would seem people are confusing cessation with annihilation. Rather than speculate how the five aggregates cease and how this is not annihilation, it is best to get to that place and see yourselves. But without a doubt it is the cessation of all suffering- just that moment - the point where the fish jumps out of the water and finds for the first time in it's long samsaric life, that there is a place without water. We are swimming in attachment, ignorance and aggregates- release to be understood, must be experienced. This is truly a middle path between annihilation and existence - but even though I say that, that is also prone to misapprehension as some limbo state. The sooner we understand that this thing called nibbana cannot be comprehensively conceptualised, all the wrong views we are now generating in those reading this will hopefully be lessened.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Nyana »

rowyourboat wrote:Hmm.. It would seem people are confusing cessation with annihilation. Rather than speculate how the five aggregates cease and how this is not annihilation, it is best to get to that place and see yourselves. But without a doubt it is the cessation of all suffering- just that moment - the point where the fish jumps out of the water and finds for the first time in it's long samsaric life, that there is a place without water. We are swimming in attachment, ignorance and aggregates- release to be understood, must be experienced. This is truly a middle path between annihilation and existence - but even though I say that, that is also prone to misapprehension as some limbo state. The sooner we understand that this thing called nibbana cannot be comprehensively conceptualised, all the wrong views we are now generating in those reading this will hopefully be lessened.
Nibbāna is the extinguishment of fetters. To be precise, the state wherein one experiences the extinguishment (nibbāna) of fetters appropriate to each path and fruition, is supramundane jhāna (lokuttarajjhāna). And this state must necessarily arise with the concomitant jhāna factors and other mental factors such as attention (manasikāra) and apperception (saññā), as well as gnosis (ñāṇa). Without the presence of these mental factors there can be no gnosis and therefore no path attainment or fruition attainment.

All the best,

Geoff
User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by kirk5a »

rowyourboat wrote:Hmm.. It would seem people are confusing cessation with annihilation. Rather than speculate how the five aggregates cease and how this is not annihilation, it is best to get to that place and see yourselves. But without a doubt it is the cessation of all suffering- just that moment - the point where the fish jumps out of the water and finds for the first time in it's long samsaric life, that there is a place without water. We are swimming in attachment, ignorance and aggregates- release to be understood, must be experienced. This is truly a middle path between annihilation and existence - but even though I say that, that is also prone to misapprehension as some limbo state. The sooner we understand that this thing called nibbana cannot be comprehensively conceptualised, all the wrong views we are now generating in those reading this will hopefully be lessened.

With metta

Matheesha
I can't speak for anyone else, but my interest is focused on whether stream entry requires the total stopping of all sense experience. You have said that it does. If so, then I am also interested in how that stopping is different from anesthetized unconsciousness. It is not satisfactory to me to say "just go practice it and find out." As this thread is about, there was a guy who put a lot of effort into practicing certain instructions and all it got him was a sort of unconsciousness. Going by Ven. Thanissaro's account, that is the "state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava)".

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... mbers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The second state was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed, and so refined that it refused settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all — although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn't been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also "program" myself to come out at a particular time.
After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. But it does have other uses." He then told me of the time he had undergone kidney surgery and, not trusting the anesthesiologist, had put himself in that state for the duration of the operation.
In both these states of wrong concentration, the limited range of awareness was what made them wrong. If whole areas of your awareness are blocked off, how can you gain all-around insight? And as I've noticed in years since, people adept at blotting out large areas of awareness through powerful one-pointedness also tend to be psychologically adept at dissociation and denial. This is why Ajaan Fuang, following Ajaan Lee, taught a form of breath meditation that aimed at an all-around awareness of the breath energy throughout the body, playing with it to gain a sense of ease, and then calming it so that it wouldn't interfere with a clear vision of the subtle movements of the mind. This all-around awareness helped to eliminate the blind spots where ignorance likes to lurk."
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Parth
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Parth »

Dear Kirk5a,

You wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else, but my interest is focused on whether stream entry requires the total stopping of all sense experience. You have said that it does. If so, then I am also interested in how that stopping is different from anesthetized unconsciousness. It is not satisfactory to me to say "just go practice it and find out." As this thread is about, there was a guy who put a lot of effort into practicing certain instructions and all it got him was a sort of unconsciousness. Going by Ven. Thanissaro's account, that is the "state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava)".
Please understand "Nibbana" cannot be defined, something (here again some friend can come and say it is not a 'thing') which is beyond the six senses how can you express it in words, it can only be experienced and thats it. Explaining it in words is like putting a stick in water, even though the stick may be straight by putting in water it will look tilted. Plus, it is useless also becuase it does not help anybody a wee bit and any definition you give, it cannot and will not be correct.

Yes, what I can definately say is that it is entirely different from being unconscious, even when one is unconsious the subconsious mind continues to work, it is not a state beyond the six senses and as Geoff pointed out fetters have certainly not ended.

You said that
there was a guy who put a lot of effort into practicing certain instructions and all it got him was a sort of unconsciousness
. Well for Buddha it was not a story of even one lifetime but probably millions, so for most people. You just need to keep walking the path, more than trying to understand 'Nibbana' conceptually please walk the path. Unfortunately / fortunately only you will have to achieve nibbana to understand it, nobody can do it for anybody else. Start Vipassana, even if it is a walk of a thousand miles it starts with the first step; take that step.

Metta

Parth
User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by kirk5a »

parth wrote:Yes, what I can definately say is that it is entirely different from being unconscious, even when one is unconsious the subconsious mind continues to work, it is not a state beyond the six senses and as Geoff pointed out fetters have certainly not ended.
Very well. Do you disagree with anything said below? The same question to Matheesha. As that is my primary interest. What is said here by Ajahn Amaro is "Yet we do not shut off the senses in any way."
(btw, please set aside presumptions about my practice, thank you)

http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issu ... amaro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When we stop creating the world, we stop creating each other. We stop imputing the sense of solidity that creates a sense of separation. Yet we do not shut off the senses in any way. Actually, we shed the veneer, the films of confusion, of opinion, of judgment, of our conditioning, so that we can see the way things really are. At that moment, dukkha ceases. There is knowing. There is liberation and freedom. There is no dukkha."
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by rowyourboat »

Hi Kirk

While I agree with Ajhan Sumedho, I don't agree with Ajhan Amaro on the matter.
One of the places the Buddha uses this description is at the end of a long illustrative tale. A monk has asked, "Where is it that earth, water, fire and wind fade out and cease without remainder?" To which the Buddha replies that the monk has asked the wrong question. What he should have asked is, "Where is it that earth, water, fire and wind can find no footing?" The Buddha then answers this question himself, saying it is in "the consciousness which is invisible, limitless and radiant in all directions" that the four great elements "and long and short, and coarse and fine, and pure and impure can find no footing. There it is that nama-rupa (body-and-mind, name-and-form, subject-and-object) both come to an end. With this stopping, this cessation of consciousness, all things here are brought to an end."
It just surprises me the lengths people will go to, to avoid the cessation of consciousness. Clearly they do not consider the arising of consciousness as dukkha, but as sukha, which is no good really- especially for a Buddhist monk who teaches internationally. So how does it differ from anaesthesia? It differs because it happens when fetters are broken, and not just when things disappear (even though that happens superficially as well). It happens after a series of developments (nibbida, viraga, nirodha) and not simply by shifting focus and becoming 'de-focused' as this monk is suggesting (if that were the case everybody who starts off in meditation could be enlightened 2 minutes later).

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Kenshou »

How does the cessation of all consciousness as nibbana fit into passages such as this one? If you please.
Dhatu-vibhanga sutta wrote:One neither fabricates nor mentally fashions for the sake of becoming or un-becoming. This being the case, one is not sustained by anything in the world (does not cling to anything in the world). Unsustained, one is not agitated. Unagitated, one is totally unbound right within.
And, the pali:
So anabhisaṅkharonto anabhisañcetayanto bhavāya vā vibhavāya vā na kiñci loke upādiyati. Anupādiyaṃ na paritassati, aparitassaṃ paccattaṃyeva parinibbāyati.
As far as I can understand it, it simply seems to be saying that, not conditioning (anabhisaṅkharonto anabhisañcetayanto) and not clinging (na kiñci loke upādiyati), the mind is not sustained (anupādiyaṃ) by any phenomena, not bound to it, and being thus, stress doesn't arise (na paritassati). Which is release, nibbana (parinibbāyati).
rowyourboat wrote:It just surprises me the lengths people will go to, to avoid the cessation of consciousness. Clearly they do not consider the arising of consciousness as dukkha, but as sukha
Would it not be rather patronizing and presumptuous of me to tell you that you and those who hold the same view are clearly motivated by vibhavatanhā and therefore possessed of wrong view?
While I agree with Ajhan Sumedho, I don't agree with Ajhan Amaro on the matter.
It seems that your agreement with Ajahn Sumedho relies on putting his statements into your context.

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 20#p113282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Kenshou on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Alexei
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:51 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Alexei »

Hi rowyourboat,

Venerable Amaro don't say that arising of consciousness is sukha.

As far as I can understand he say that results of practise shouldn't be measured just by some states in meditation which even can't reduce suffering in everyday life.



A few quotes from suttas about "shifting focus":
  • And what is the Unbinding property with fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable & the disagreeable, and is sensitive to pleasure & pain. His ending of passion, aversion, & delusion is termed the Unbinding property with fuel remaining.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    Now, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones, when touched with a feeling of pain, does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. So he feels one pain: physical, but not mental.
    [...]
    Sensing a feeling of pleasure, he senses it disjoined from it. Sensing a feeling of pain, he senses it disjoined from it. Sensing a feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain, he senses it disjoined from it. This is called a well-instructed disciple of the noble ones disjoined from birth, aging, & death; from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is disjoined, I tell you, from suffering & stress.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
    ...
    Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    And how does a monk not burn? There is the case where a monk's conceit of 'I am' is abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. This is how a monk doesn't burn.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    He should develop the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.' For a monk perceiving inconstancy, the perception of not-self is made firm. One perceiving not-self attains the uprooting of the conceit, 'I am' — Unbinding in the here and now.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    Freed, dissociated, & released from form, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Freed, dissociated, & released from feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness... birth... aging... death... stress... defilement, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    "Just as if a skilled butcher or butcher's apprentice, having killed a cow, were to carve it up with a sharp carving knife so that — without damaging the substance of the inner flesh, without damaging the substance of the outer hide — he would cut, sever, & detach only the skin muscles, connective tissues, & attachments in between. Having cut, severed, & detached the outer skin, and then covering the cow again with that very skin, if he were to say that the cow was joined to the skin just as it had been: would he be speaking rightly?"
    "No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because if the skilled butcher or butcher's apprentice, having killed a cow, were to ... cut, sever, & detach only the skin muscles, connective tissues, & attachments in between; and ... having covered the cow again with that very skin, then no matter how much he might say that the cow was joined to the skin just as it had been, the cow would still be disjoined from the skin."
    "This simile, sisters, I have given to convey a message. The message is this: The substance of the inner flesh stands for the six internal media; the substance of the outer hide, for the six external media. The skin muscles, connective tissues, & attachments in between stand for passion & delight. And the sharp knife stands for noble discernment — the noble discernment that cuts, severs, & detaches the defilements, fetters, & bonds in between.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    Here, Hemaka, with regard to things that are dear — seen, heard, sensed, & cognized — there is: the dispelling of passion & desire, the undying state of Unbinding. Those knowing this, mindful, fully unbound in the here & now, are forever calmed, have crossed over beyond entanglement in the world.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

    Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by mikenz66 »

rowyourboat wrote: It just surprises me the lengths people will go to, to avoid the cessation of consciousness. ...
Perhaps the question is what exactly is meant by such cessation.

Here is something I've quoted before. Bhikkhu Nanananda's notes to SN1.2:
SN1.2 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #passage-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nanananda wrote:When delight and existence [8] are exhausted
When perception and conciousness[9] are both destroyed
When feelings cease and are thus appeased [10] - thus, O friend,
Do I know, for them that live
Deliverance, freedom, detatchment.

[Note 8] Delight (nandi) is said to be the root of existence (bhava), and hence the fading away of the former results in the cessation of the latter. It amounts to a realization, here and now, of the fact that one has crossed over all forms of existence (bhavass paragu - Dhp v. 348). This experience that the consciousness is not established anywhere - neither here (neva idha), nor beyond (na huam), no in between (na ubhayamantara - Ud. 81) - provides for the arahant certitude often expressed in the words: 'Extinct is birth, lived is the holy life, done is the task, and there is nothing beyond this for (a designation of) the conditions of this existence.'

[Note 9] This refers to the experience of the cessation of consciousness (vinnananirodha DI.213) with the removal of its support name and form. The experience is described in the Suttas as a very unusual kind of 'jhana' or 'samadhi', since it does not partake of any perceptual data. (A.IV.427, V.7,8,318,319,324f,353ff).

[Note 10] The cessation of appeasement of feelings is yet another aspect of this experience. Thereby the arahant realizes the extinction of all suffering, mental as well as physical, which in effects is the bliss of nibbana as the deliverance from all samsaric suffering. What is most significant about this paradoxical jhana is that, despite the extinction of all that normally constitutes our waking experience, the arahant is still said to be mindful and aware. It is sometimes referred to as 'the sphere' (ayatana) in which the six sense spheres have totally ceased (See MIII.218, S.IV.98)
:anjali:
Mike
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Kenshou »

From Nibbana Sermon #15:
What actually happens in the attainment to the fruit of arahant-hood? The worldling discerns the world around him with the help of six narrow beams of light, namely the six sense-bases. When the superior lustre of wisdom arises, those six sense-bases go down. This cessation of the six-sense bases could also be referred to as the cessation of name-and form, nāmarūpanirodha, or the cessation of consciousness, viññāṇanirodha. The cessation of the six sense-bases does not mean that one does not see anything. What one sees then is voidness. It is an in-'sight'. He gives expression to it with the words suñño loko, "void is the world". What it means is that all the sense objects, which the worldling grasps as real and truly existing, get penetrated through with wisdom and become non-manifest.
So as far as I can understand, the cessation of the six-sense-bases/consciousness/the loka of sense-experience refers to how with the full understanding of impermanence, it is known that these phenomena which were taken for granted as self-evident, "real" things are known to be empty and void. So for the arhat, consciousness and the world as "things" are destroyed.
Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique

Post by Nyana »

mikenz66 wrote:[Note 9] This refers to the experience of the cessation of consciousness (vinnananirodha DI.213) with the removal of its support name and form. The experience is described in the Suttas as a very unusual kind of 'jhana' or 'samadhi', since it does not partake of any perceptual data. (A.IV.427, V.7,8,318,319,324f,353ff).
In Concept and Reality Ven. Ñāṇananda equates the experience of featureless/non-manifestative consciousness (anidassana viññāṇa) with the fruition-gnosis samādhi (aññāphala samādhi) of an arahant, which after first attainment can be re-entered later as the arahant's meditation. AN 9.37 describes this samādhi as follows:
  • Sister, the concentration whereby -- neither pressed down nor forced back, nor with fabrication kept blocked or suppressed -- still as a result of release, contented as a result of standing still, and as a result of contentment one is not agitated: This concentration is said by the Blessed One to be the fruit of gnosis.
On page 61 of Concept and Reality Ven. Ñāṇananda discusses this samādhi:
  • The unique feature of this samādhi is its very fluxional character. In it there is no such fixity as to justify a statement that it 'depends on' (nissāya) some object (ārammaṇa) as its support -- hence the frustration of gods and men who seek out the basis of the Tathāgata's consciousness. Normally, the jhānas are characterized by an element of fixity on which consciousness finds a footing or a steadying point. It is on this very fixity that the illusion of the ego thrives. In the above jhāna of the emancipated one, however, the ego has melted away in the fire of wisdom which sees the cosmic process of arising and cessation. Not only has the concept "I" (papañca par excellence) undergone combustion, but it has also ignited the data of sensory experience in their entirety. Thus in this jhāna of the Arahant, the world of concepts melts away in the intuitional bonfire of universal impermanence.
This general description also pertains to the supramundane jhāna of streamwinners, once returners, and non-returners as well.

All the best,

Geoff
Post Reply