Hello Teachers/Friends,
I've been wondering if bhavanamaya panna (learning in heart instead of in brain?) should be obtained 1) by vipassana after entering samadhi, or 2) by directly experiencing dhammas.
1. By vipassana after entering samadhi: obtain true knowledgte with a calmed citta.
By contemplating the five aggregates and nibbana when in samadhi, as taught by the Buddha in AN 9.36 (& MN 64):
'I tell you, the ending of the effluents [after obtaining the deepest bhavanamaya panna] depends on the first jhana.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?..., there is the case where a monk... enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of withdrawal, accompanied by vitaka & vicara. He regards whatever phenomena there [in the jhana] that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications [intentions], & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness:
'This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbana.'
If he is steady in that, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that chandaraga (desire and attachment) for the Dhamma [those states: jhanas?] then with the destruction of the five lower fetters [self-identity views, grasping at sila & observances, doubts, sensual passion, and aversion/ill will/anger] he becomes one due to reappear spontaneously [in the pure abodes], and there attain final Nibbana without ever returning from that world."
Or by contemplating the Dhamma as taught in anapanassati sutta:
1) Contemplate anicca/dukkha/anatta of the five aggregates involved in the jhana [disenchantment towards the five aggregates].
2) Contemplate dispassion and ending of craving [towards the five aggregates].
3) Contemplate cessation [of attachment to the five aggregates].
4) Contemplate relinquishing [of greed/aversion/delusion].
To me, part of such contemplations are not done through direct personal experience at the moment of contemplation. Of course we can use our past experiences for the contemplation.
2. By directly experiencing dhammas:
I was advised that aversion, for instance, can only be abandoned through repeatedly experiencing the unpleasant things (the ugly and the disgusting) and painful feelings (the bodily/mental pain) so that the heart can really know and see what aversion to them is (how the defilements work) and then let each aversion go. The same applies to greed. Each attachment/aversion is removed one by one first, then in groups, ... This method is like pruning the trees ... I was told without knowing how the defilements work we can't really let our attachments go, even though we've comprehended anatta. We should use anatta only to distant ourselves from the things we are attached to, in order to investigate them and then let them go ...
I thought we can cut the roots of greed and aversion by truly comprehending anicca/dukkha/anatta of the six sense sets/five aggregates, so we can just repeatedly contemplate anicca/dukkha/anatta of the six sense sets/five aggregates as mentioned in section 1 and apply anicca/dukkha/anatta to detach ourselves from all things and from all our feelings and let them go. However, while reading the following sutta, I've realized that the Buddha advised us to comprehend/abandon/develop/realize through direct knowledge (through personal experience, through practicing). The Buddha actually taught us how to do so (through direct knowledge) in the Satipattana sutta (DN22 and MN10): experience and contemplate body/feeling/mind states/the Dhamma (the teachings), and experience anicca in the Dhammas (their dependant origination and ceasing) using right effort. It's interesting to note that in most cases he taught us to experience anicca, but not dukkha (while anatta can hardly be experienced). Of course by seeing anicca one can also see dukkha and anatta.
I was wondering without samadhi and a calmed citta, can we really know and see things as they truly are when we experience them? Now I understand in the Satipattana sutta the Buddha appeared to teach us the methods to enter samadhi by remaining focused on body/feeling/mind states/the Dhamma, and experiencing anicca through channeled attention is quite different from trying to know/see things with bare attention.
MN 149:
...
Not knowing, not seeing the eye as it actually is present; not knowing, not seeing forms (sounds, odor, taste, tactile sensations, and mental phenomena)as it actually is present... not knowing, not seeing consciousness at the eye as it actually is present... not knowing, not seeing contact at the eye as they actually are present; not knowing, not seeing whatever arises conditioned through contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — as it actually is present [not knowing, not seeing the six sense sets/five aggregates as they truly are is avija which is the most foundamental incoming defilement], one is infatuated with the eye... forms... consciousness at the eye... contact at the eye... whatever arises conditioned by contact at the eye and is experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain.
"For him — infatuated, attached, confused, not remaining focused on their drawbacks — the five clinging-aggregates head toward future accumulation. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now this & now that — grows within him. His bodily disturbances & mental disturbances grow. His bodily torments & mental torments grow. His bodily distresses & mental distresses grow. He is sensitive [subjects to] both to bodily stress & mental stress.
...
"However, knowing & seeing the eye as it actually is present , knowing & seeing forms ["foams"]... consciousness ["magic trick"] at the eye... contact at the eye as they actually are present, knowing & seeing whatever arises conditioned through contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain ["water bubble"] — as it actually is present [true knowledge: knowing and seeing the six sense sets/the 5 aggreagtes as they truly are], one is not infatuated with the eye... forms... consciousness at the eye... contact at the eye... whatever arises conditioned by contact at the eye and is experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain.
"For him — uninfatuated, unattached, unconfused, remaining focused on their drawbacks — the five clinging-aggregates head toward future diminution. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now this & now that — is abandoned by him. His bodily disturbances & mental disturbances are abandoned. His bodily torments & mental torments are abandoned. His bodily distresses & mental distresses are abandoned. He is sensitive both to ease of body & ease of mind.
"Any view belonging to one who has come to be like this is his right view. Any resolve, his right resolve. Any effort, his right effort. Any mindfulness, his right mindfulness. Any concentration, his right concentration: just as earlier his actions, speech, & livelihood were already well-purified. Thus for him, having thus developed the noble eightfold path, the four frames of reference go to the culmination of their development. The four right exertions... the four bases of power... the five faculties... the five strengths... the seven factors for Awakening go to the culmination of their development. [And] for him these two qualities occur in tandem: tranquillity & insight.
"He comprehends through direct knowledge [experiencing] whatever qualities are to be comprehended through direct knowledge [Dukkha: the five clinging-aggregates] , abandons through direct knowledge whatever qualities are to be abandoned through direct knowledge [cause of dukkha: ignorance, craving and clinging], develops through direct knowledge whatever qualities are to be developed through direct knowledge [tranquility and insight via N8P], and realizes through direct knowledge whatever qualities [true knowledge & nibbana] are to be realized through direct knowledge.
"And what qualities are to be comprehended through direct knowledge? 'The five clinging-aggregates,' should be the reply. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. These are the qualities that are to be comprehended through direct knowledge.
"And what qualities are to be abandoned through direct knowledge? Ignorance & craving for becoming [& not becoming, and craving for sensual pleasure & views] : these are the qualities that are to be abandoned through direct knowledge.
"And what qualities are to be developed through direct knowledge? Tranquillity & insight: these are the qualities that are to be developed through direct knowledge.
"And what qualities are to be realized through direct knowledge? Clear knowing [true knowledge: knowing and seeing … as they are actually present] & release: these are the qualities that are to be realized through direct knowledge.
...
Well, probably better to use both approach, but when we use the 2nd method, we should first reach a calmed citta before experiencing things. Your helpful input would be most appreciated.
Metta to all,
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How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
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How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:44 pm
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:11 am
Hm ... just realized that bhavanamaya panna seems to be for breaking the upper 7 fetters [by true knowledge], and is mainly for uprooting the root assavas (sensual craving, craving for being and not being, and ignorance). However, the armies of these assavas, various defilements [hindrances], should be abandoned by various different approaches [remove hindrances for bhavanamaya panna to arise]:
When a monk's fermentations [defilements] that should be abandoned by right view [of 4NT] have been abandoned by right view [the lowest 3 fetters], his fermentations that should be abandoned by restraining [of 6 faculties] have been abandoned by restraining, his fermentations that should be abandoned by using [of requisites]have been abandoned by using, his fermentations that should be abandoned by tolerating [of bodily and mental painhave been abandoned by tolerating, his fermentations that should be abandoned by avoiding [dangerous places and bad association] have been abandoned by avoiding, his fermentations that should be abandoned by rejecting [unskillful qualities] have been abandoned by rejecting [, his fermentations that should be abandoned by developing [7 enlightenment factors] have been abandoned by developing [and then arrives at bhavanamaya panna after removing the hindrances and emptying the mind], then he is called a monk who dwells restrained with the restraint of all the fermentations. He has severed craving, thrown off the fetters, and — through the right penetration of [self-]conceit — has made an end of suffering & stress. [MN 2]
Metta to all,
Starter
When a monk's fermentations [defilements] that should be abandoned by right view [of 4NT] have been abandoned by right view [the lowest 3 fetters], his fermentations that should be abandoned by restraining [of 6 faculties] have been abandoned by restraining, his fermentations that should be abandoned by using [of requisites]have been abandoned by using, his fermentations that should be abandoned by tolerating [of bodily and mental painhave been abandoned by tolerating, his fermentations that should be abandoned by avoiding [dangerous places and bad association] have been abandoned by avoiding, his fermentations that should be abandoned by rejecting [unskillful qualities] have been abandoned by rejecting [, his fermentations that should be abandoned by developing [7 enlightenment factors] have been abandoned by developing [and then arrives at bhavanamaya panna after removing the hindrances and emptying the mind], then he is called a monk who dwells restrained with the restraint of all the fermentations. He has severed craving, thrown off the fetters, and — through the right penetration of [self-]conceit — has made an end of suffering & stress. [MN 2]
Metta to all,
Starter
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:45 pm
"For him — uninfatuated, unattached, unconfused, remaining focused on their drawbacks — the five clinging-aggregates head toward future diminution."
How to remain focused on their drawbacks?
-- Apply wise attention to these aggregates and view them in terms of their drawbacks (anicca/dukkha/anatta). Just learned an interesting method from http://theravadin.wordpress.com/2008/03 ... llakkheti/:
“Develop concentration, o monks, a concentrated monk, o monks knows form (thinking [noting]): “impermanent”. So seeing, the noble disciple will be freed from birth, etc.".
As I understand, with a concentrated mind we can contemplate and experience anicca by mentally noting “anicca” to channel our attention. We need to gain only the liberating knowledge of the six sense sets/the 5 aggreagtes as they truly are: anicca/dukkha/anatta. This method is quite different from the bare attention model as I can see.
Metta to all!
How to remain focused on their drawbacks?
-- Apply wise attention to these aggregates and view them in terms of their drawbacks (anicca/dukkha/anatta). Just learned an interesting method from http://theravadin.wordpress.com/2008/03 ... llakkheti/:
“Develop concentration, o monks, a concentrated monk, o monks knows form (thinking [noting]): “impermanent”. So seeing, the noble disciple will be freed from birth, etc.".
As I understand, with a concentrated mind we can contemplate and experience anicca by mentally noting “anicca” to channel our attention. We need to gain only the liberating knowledge of the six sense sets/the 5 aggreagtes as they truly are: anicca/dukkha/anatta. This method is quite different from the bare attention model as I can see.
Metta to all!
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:23 pm
How to know and see the five aggregates as they truly are (yatha-bhuta-ñana-dassana)?
-- We should become skilled in the seven bases and three modes of investigation taught by the Buddha:
SN 22.57:
"A monk who is skilled in seven bases and has three modes of investigation is fulfilled and fully accomplished in this doctrine & discipline — the ultimate person."
"And how is a monk skilled in seven bases? There is the case where a monk discerns [what is] form, the origination [cause/support, dependent arising] of form [not just the arising!], the cessation [dependent cessation], the path of practice leading to the cessation of form. He discerns the allure of form, the drawback of form, and the escape [release] from form.
"He discerns feeling... He discerns perception... He discerns fabrications (intentions)...
"He discerns consciousness, the origination of consciousness, the cessation of consciousness, the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness. He discerns the allure of consciousness, the drawback of consciousness, and the escape from consciousness.
...
"And what is consciousness? These six classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness. From the origination of name-&-form comes the origination of consciousness. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness, i.e., right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. The fact that pleasure & happiness arises in dependence on consciousness: that is the allure of consciousness. The fact that consciousness is inconstant, stressful, subject to change: that is the drawback of consciousness. The subduing of desire & passion for consciousness, the abandoning of desire & passion for consciousness: that is the escape from consciousness.
...
"And how does a monk have three modes of investigation? There is the case where a monk investigates in terms of properties [anicca/dukkha/anatta?], investigates in terms of sense spheres [?], investigates in terms of dependent co-arising. ..."
-- I guess investigations in terms of sense spheres mean six sense sets (?)
Metta to all!
-- We should become skilled in the seven bases and three modes of investigation taught by the Buddha:
SN 22.57:
"A monk who is skilled in seven bases and has three modes of investigation is fulfilled and fully accomplished in this doctrine & discipline — the ultimate person."
"And how is a monk skilled in seven bases? There is the case where a monk discerns [what is] form, the origination [cause/support, dependent arising] of form [not just the arising!], the cessation [dependent cessation], the path of practice leading to the cessation of form. He discerns the allure of form, the drawback of form, and the escape [release] from form.
"He discerns feeling... He discerns perception... He discerns fabrications (intentions)...
"He discerns consciousness, the origination of consciousness, the cessation of consciousness, the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness. He discerns the allure of consciousness, the drawback of consciousness, and the escape from consciousness.
...
"And what is consciousness? These six classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness. From the origination of name-&-form comes the origination of consciousness. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness, i.e., right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. The fact that pleasure & happiness arises in dependence on consciousness: that is the allure of consciousness. The fact that consciousness is inconstant, stressful, subject to change: that is the drawback of consciousness. The subduing of desire & passion for consciousness, the abandoning of desire & passion for consciousness: that is the escape from consciousness.
...
"And how does a monk have three modes of investigation? There is the case where a monk investigates in terms of properties [anicca/dukkha/anatta?], investigates in terms of sense spheres [?], investigates in terms of dependent co-arising. ..."
-- I guess investigations in terms of sense spheres mean six sense sets (?)
Metta to all!
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:55 pm
Just to share with you some other ways to obtain the bhavanamaya panna for ending defilements:
MN 101:
"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. He discerns, as it has come to be, that 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress...[b] These are mental fermentations... This is the origination of fermentations [five hindrances as the condition/nutriment]... This is the cessation of fermentations... This is the way leading to the cessation of fermentations.' His heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, is released from the fermentation of sensuality, the fermentation of becoming, the fermentation of ignorance.[/b] With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.'
MN 37 (http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... _Sutta.htm):
Then Sakka, ruler of gods, went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, he stood at one side and asked: "Venerable sir, how in brief is a bhikkhu liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans?"
3] "Here, ruler of gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to. When a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to, he directly knows everything [how??]; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having directly known everything, he fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither pleasant nor painful, he abides contemplating (observing) impermanence in those feelings, contemplating (observing) fading away [dispassion], contemplating (observing) cessation, contemplating (observing) relinquishment (letting go). Contemplating (observing) thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, there is no more coming to any state of being.’ Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans.
-- How could he directly know everything after hearing that nothing is worth adhering to? I thought I could contemplate feelings as taught in this teaching but have just realized I probably haven't DIRECTLY known everything [the six sense sets/five aggregates as anicca/dukkha/anatta?], which is a prerequisite for this contemplation.
-- I suppose he directly knows everything by experiencing and contemplating body/feeling/mind states/the Dhamma (the teachings), and experiencing anicca in the Dhammas (their dependant origination and ceasing) as taught by the Buddha in the Satipattana sutta (DN22 and MN10).
-- I'd appreciate some other explanation if you have.
Metta to all!
MN 101:
"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. He discerns, as it has come to be, that 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress...[b] These are mental fermentations... This is the origination of fermentations [five hindrances as the condition/nutriment]... This is the cessation of fermentations... This is the way leading to the cessation of fermentations.' His heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, is released from the fermentation of sensuality, the fermentation of becoming, the fermentation of ignorance.[/b] With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.'
MN 37 (http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... _Sutta.htm):
Then Sakka, ruler of gods, went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, he stood at one side and asked: "Venerable sir, how in brief is a bhikkhu liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans?"
3] "Here, ruler of gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to. When a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to, he directly knows everything [how??]; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having directly known everything, he fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither pleasant nor painful, he abides contemplating (observing) impermanence in those feelings, contemplating (observing) fading away [dispassion], contemplating (observing) cessation, contemplating (observing) relinquishment (letting go). Contemplating (observing) thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, there is no more coming to any state of being.’ Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans.
-- How could he directly know everything after hearing that nothing is worth adhering to? I thought I could contemplate feelings as taught in this teaching but have just realized I probably haven't DIRECTLY known everything [the six sense sets/five aggregates as anicca/dukkha/anatta?], which is a prerequisite for this contemplation.
-- I suppose he directly knows everything by experiencing and contemplating body/feeling/mind states/the Dhamma (the teachings), and experiencing anicca in the Dhammas (their dependant origination and ceasing) as taught by the Buddha in the Satipattana sutta (DN22 and MN10).
-- I'd appreciate some other explanation if you have.
Metta to all!
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:06 pm
Some nice reading to share here:
"Although mindfulness is helpful in fostering vipassana, it's not enough for developing vipassana to the point of total release. Other techniques and approaches are needed as well. In particular, vipassana needs to be teamed with samatha — the ability to settle the mind comfortably [with the hindrances surpressed] in the present — so as to master the attainment of strong states of absorption, or jhana. Based on this mastery, samatha and vipassana are then applied to a skillful program of questioning, called appropriate attention [contemplation], directed at all [?] experience: exploring events not in terms of me [self]/not me [not self], or being/not being, but in terms of the four noble truths [and the three characteristics]. The meditator pursues this program until it leads to a fivefold* understanding of all events: in terms of their arising, their passing away, their drawbacks, their allure, and the escape from them. Only then can the mind taste release. [*The Buddha also taught seven bases and three modes of investigation -- see the above post].
This program for developing vipassana and samatha, in turn, needs the support of many other attitudes, mental qualities, and techniques of practice. This was why the Buddha taught it as part of a still larger program, including respect for [conviction in] the noble ones [& correct mastery of the Buddha's teaching -- right view], mastery of all seven approaches for abandoning the mental fermentations, and all eight factors of the noble path. To take a reductionist approach to the practice can produce only reduced results, for meditation is a skill like carpentry, requiring a mastery of many tools in response to many different needs. To limit oneself to only one approach in meditation would be like trying to build a house when one's motivation is uncertain and one's tool box contains nothing but hammers."
-- One Tool Among Many The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice by Thanissaro Bhikkhu [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/onetool.html]
PS: as I understand, the application of insight (anicca/dukkha/anatta) in our daily activities can be done without jhana, as means for removing hindrances by wisdom.
"Although mindfulness is helpful in fostering vipassana, it's not enough for developing vipassana to the point of total release. Other techniques and approaches are needed as well. In particular, vipassana needs to be teamed with samatha — the ability to settle the mind comfortably [with the hindrances surpressed] in the present — so as to master the attainment of strong states of absorption, or jhana. Based on this mastery, samatha and vipassana are then applied to a skillful program of questioning, called appropriate attention [contemplation], directed at all [?] experience: exploring events not in terms of me [self]/not me [not self], or being/not being, but in terms of the four noble truths [and the three characteristics]. The meditator pursues this program until it leads to a fivefold* understanding of all events: in terms of their arising, their passing away, their drawbacks, their allure, and the escape from them. Only then can the mind taste release. [*The Buddha also taught seven bases and three modes of investigation -- see the above post].
This program for developing vipassana and samatha, in turn, needs the support of many other attitudes, mental qualities, and techniques of practice. This was why the Buddha taught it as part of a still larger program, including respect for [conviction in] the noble ones [& correct mastery of the Buddha's teaching -- right view], mastery of all seven approaches for abandoning the mental fermentations, and all eight factors of the noble path. To take a reductionist approach to the practice can produce only reduced results, for meditation is a skill like carpentry, requiring a mastery of many tools in response to many different needs. To limit oneself to only one approach in meditation would be like trying to build a house when one's motivation is uncertain and one's tool box contains nothing but hammers."
-- One Tool Among Many The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice by Thanissaro Bhikkhu [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/onetool.html]
PS: as I understand, the application of insight (anicca/dukkha/anatta) in our daily activities can be done without jhana, as means for removing hindrances by wisdom.
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by rowyourboat » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:14 pm
When one considers the 7 visuddhi or Purifications what practices need to come before vipassana become aparent
1) Purification of virtue - keeping atleast the five precepts
2) Purification of concentration- atleast upacara samadhi-1st jhana better, 4th jhana best
3) Purification of view
-this can be done by a) listening to the dhamma -paratogoso b) appropriate contemplation - yonisomanasikara
For appropriate contemplation:
Picking the description which resonates best with you- you consider whatever that comes into your line of awareness and see them as ...a cancer, for example. This develops right view about the five aggregates. You may wish to consider each of the aggregates separately (more likely to be effective).
Then go on to:
4) Purification of doubt - removing all doubt about the three characteristics
..and that they are universal in application, leading to seeing that no other teaching has this insight, and faith in the idea that only this teaching and teacher may have the keys to the correct path- which leads to ..5) Purification of what is path and not path. This is also when vipassana proper (ie satipatthana proper) begins- seeing beginings/arisings and endings/passing away (Which leads to the insight knowledge of 'arising and passing away').
..and so on , until stream entry ocurs.
See how this corresponds to the four 'Factors of stream entry'.
with metta
Matheesha
1) Purification of virtue - keeping atleast the five precepts
2) Purification of concentration- atleast upacara samadhi-1st jhana better, 4th jhana best
3) Purification of view
-this can be done by a) listening to the dhamma -paratogoso b) appropriate contemplation - yonisomanasikara
For appropriate contemplation:
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Picking the description which resonates best with you- you consider whatever that comes into your line of awareness and see them as ...a cancer, for example. This develops right view about the five aggregates. You may wish to consider each of the aggregates separately (more likely to be effective).
Then go on to:
4) Purification of doubt - removing all doubt about the three characteristics
..and that they are universal in application, leading to seeing that no other teaching has this insight, and faith in the idea that only this teaching and teacher may have the keys to the correct path- which leads to ..5) Purification of what is path and not path. This is also when vipassana proper (ie satipatthana proper) begins- seeing beginings/arisings and endings/passing away (Which leads to the insight knowledge of 'arising and passing away').
..and so on , until stream entry ocurs.
See how this corresponds to the four 'Factors of stream entry'.
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by pegembara » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:52 am
I view the garden in my mind as a sacred patch of
cosmic real estate that the universe has entrusted me to tend
over the years of my lifetime. As an independent agent, I and
I alone, in conjunction with the molecular genius of my DNA
and the environmental factors I am exposed to, will decorate
this space within my cranium. In the early years, I may have
minimal input into what circuits grow inside my brain
because I am the product of the dirt and seeds I have
inherited. But to our good fortune, the genius of our DNA is
not a dictator, and thanks to our neurons’ plasticity, the
power of thought, and the wonders of modern medicine, very
few outcomes are absolute.
Regardless of the garden I have inherited, once I
consciously take over the responsibility of tending my mind, I
choose to nurture those circuits that I want to grow, and
consciously prune back those circuits I prefer to live without.
Although it is easier for me to nip a weed when it is just a
sprouting bud, with determination and perseverance, even
the gnarliest of vines, when deprived of fuel, will eventually
lose its strength and fall to the side.
My Stroke of Insight
Jill Bolte
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:22 pm
Hi pegembara,
The approached you described seems to be the 1st one taught by Ven. Sariputta in MN 9:
The Wholesome and the Unwholesome
3. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
4. "And what, friends, is the unwholesome, what is the root of the unwholesome, what is the wholesome, what is the root of the wholesome? Killing living beings is unwholesome; taking what is not given is unwholesome; misconduct in sensual pleasures is unwholesome; false speech is unwholesome; malicious speech is unwholesome; harsh speech is unwholesome; gossip is unwholesome; covetousness [out of greed] is unwholesome; ill will [out of aversion] is unwholesome; wrong view is unwholesome. This is called the unwholesome.
5. "And what is the root of the unwholesome? Greed is a root of the unwholesome; hate is a root of the unwholesome; delusion is a root of the unwholesome. This is called the root of the unwholesome.
6. "And what is the wholesome? Abstention from killing living beings is wholesome; abstention from taking what is not given is wholesome; abstention from misconduct in sensual pleasures is wholesome; abstention from false speech is wholesome; abstention from malicious speech is wholesome; abstention from harsh speech is wholesome; abstention from gossip is wholesome; non-covetousness is wholesome; non-ill will is wholesome; right view is wholesome. This is called the wholesome.
7. "And what is the root of the wholesome? Non-greed is a root of the wholesome; non-hate is a root of the wholesome; non-delusion is a root of the wholesome. This is called the root of the wholesome.
8. "When a noble disciple has thus understood the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, he entirely abandons the underlying tendency to lust [greed], he abolishes the underlying tendency to aversion, he extirpates the underlying tendency to the view and conceit 'I am,' [delusion] and by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma and has arrived at this true Dhamma."
But this sutta didn't describe HOW he could entirely abandon the underlying tendency to greed, aversion, delusion and arouse true knowledge. I suppose it's done via watching one's mind (presence and absence of greed, aversion and delusion) through right effort (the 4 exertions) like attending your "garden". This method seems to be Ajahn Chah's and Ajahn Dtun's approach (gradual abandoning of assavas), which probably doesn't emphasize jhanas and the "sudden" abandoning of defilements in jhanas, but more the style of living/"gardening" (to my understanding).
Thanks and metta,
Starter
The approached you described seems to be the 1st one taught by Ven. Sariputta in MN 9:
The Wholesome and the Unwholesome
3. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
4. "And what, friends, is the unwholesome, what is the root of the unwholesome, what is the wholesome, what is the root of the wholesome? Killing living beings is unwholesome; taking what is not given is unwholesome; misconduct in sensual pleasures is unwholesome; false speech is unwholesome; malicious speech is unwholesome; harsh speech is unwholesome; gossip is unwholesome; covetousness [out of greed] is unwholesome; ill will [out of aversion] is unwholesome; wrong view is unwholesome. This is called the unwholesome.
5. "And what is the root of the unwholesome? Greed is a root of the unwholesome; hate is a root of the unwholesome; delusion is a root of the unwholesome. This is called the root of the unwholesome.
6. "And what is the wholesome? Abstention from killing living beings is wholesome; abstention from taking what is not given is wholesome; abstention from misconduct in sensual pleasures is wholesome; abstention from false speech is wholesome; abstention from malicious speech is wholesome; abstention from harsh speech is wholesome; abstention from gossip is wholesome; non-covetousness is wholesome; non-ill will is wholesome; right view is wholesome. This is called the wholesome.
7. "And what is the root of the wholesome? Non-greed is a root of the wholesome; non-hate is a root of the wholesome; non-delusion is a root of the wholesome. This is called the root of the wholesome.
8. "When a noble disciple has thus understood the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, he entirely abandons the underlying tendency to lust [greed], he abolishes the underlying tendency to aversion, he extirpates the underlying tendency to the view and conceit 'I am,' [delusion] and by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma and has arrived at this true Dhamma."
But this sutta didn't describe HOW he could entirely abandon the underlying tendency to greed, aversion, delusion and arouse true knowledge. I suppose it's done via watching one's mind (presence and absence of greed, aversion and delusion) through right effort (the 4 exertions) like attending your "garden". This method seems to be Ajahn Chah's and Ajahn Dtun's approach (gradual abandoning of assavas), which probably doesn't emphasize jhanas and the "sudden" abandoning of defilements in jhanas, but more the style of living/"gardening" (to my understanding).
Thanks and metta,
Starter
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:18 pm
Hi I happened to find a sutta which is relevant to my question about "How could he directly know everything after hearing that nothing is worth adhering to?":
SN 35.80
Avijja Sutta: Ignorance
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One:
"Lord, is there any one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"
"Yes monk, there is one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
"What is that one thing?"
"Ignorance, monk, is the one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
"But how does a monk know, how does a monk see, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"
"There is the case, monk, where a monk has heard, 'All things are unworthy of attachment.' Having heard that all things are unworthy of attachment, he directly knows every thing. Directly knowing every thing, he comprehends every thing. Comprehending every thing, he sees all themes [all phemonena] as anatta [literanlly "as other"].
"He sees the eye as anatta. He sees forms as anatta. He sees eye-consciousness as anatta. He sees eye-contact as anatta. And whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as anatta.
"He sees the ear as anatta...
"He sees the nose as anatta...
"He sees the tongue as anatta...
"He sees the body as anatta...
"He sees the intellect as anatta. He sees ideas as anatta. He sees intellect-consciousness as anatta. He sees intellect-contact as anatta. And whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as anatta.
"This is how a monk knows, this is how a monk sees, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
Note: "anatta" is my translation of "as other". TB translated it into "something separate".
But this sutta didn't really explain HOW he could directly know everything after hearing that nothing is worth adhering to. The result of such knowing (seeing all Dhammas as anatta) tends to suggest that he directly knows everything by experiencing and contemplating six sense sets, and experiencing anicca (which leads to anatta) in them.
Metta to all!
SN 35.80
Avijja Sutta: Ignorance
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One:
"Lord, is there any one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"
"Yes monk, there is one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
"What is that one thing?"
"Ignorance, monk, is the one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
"But how does a monk know, how does a monk see, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"
"There is the case, monk, where a monk has heard, 'All things are unworthy of attachment.' Having heard that all things are unworthy of attachment, he directly knows every thing. Directly knowing every thing, he comprehends every thing. Comprehending every thing, he sees all themes [all phemonena] as anatta [literanlly "as other"].
"He sees the eye as anatta. He sees forms as anatta. He sees eye-consciousness as anatta. He sees eye-contact as anatta. And whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as anatta.
"He sees the ear as anatta...
"He sees the nose as anatta...
"He sees the tongue as anatta...
"He sees the body as anatta...
"He sees the intellect as anatta. He sees ideas as anatta. He sees intellect-consciousness as anatta. He sees intellect-contact as anatta. And whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as anatta.
"This is how a monk knows, this is how a monk sees, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."
Note: "anatta" is my translation of "as other". TB translated it into "something separate".
But this sutta didn't really explain HOW he could directly know everything after hearing that nothing is worth adhering to. The result of such knowing (seeing all Dhammas as anatta) tends to suggest that he directly knows everything by experiencing and contemplating six sense sets, and experiencing anicca (which leads to anatta) in them.
Metta to all!
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:50 pm
Hi just to share with you my new understanding about how to develop bhavanamaya panna. After reading MN 149 again:
MN 149:
"Any view belonging to one who has come to be like this is his right view. Any resolve, his right resolve. Any effort, his right effort. Any mindfulness, his right mindfulness. Any concentration, his right concentration: just as earlier his actions, speech, & livelihood were already well-purified. Thus for him, having thus developed the noble eightfold path, the four frames of reference go to the culmination of their development. The four right exertions... the four bases of power... the five faculties... the five strengths... the seven factors for Awakening go to the culmination of their development. [And] for him these two qualities occur in tandem: tranquillity & insight (bhavanamaya panna, "supramundane wisdom" probably a better translation?).
"He comprehends through direct knowledge [experiencing] whatever qualities [Dukkha: the five clinging-aggregates] are to be comprehended through direct knowledge, abandons through direct knowledge whatever qualities [cause of dukkha: ignorance, craving and clinging] are to be abandoned through direct knowledge, develops through direct knowledge whatever qualities are to be developed through direct knowledge [tranquility and supramundane wisdom via N8P], and realizes through direct knowledge whatever qualities [true knowledge & nibbana] are to be realized through direct knowledge.
I've realized that insight is a natural product of developing N8P, just like the other factors which aid enlightenment. Bhavanamaya panna is gained through practicing: experiencing and comprehending dukkha (the five clinging-aggregates), practicing and experiencing the abandoning of the ignorance, craving and clinging to the five clinging-aggregates, practicing each single factor of the N8P which will lead to tranquility and wisdom, and finally realizing true knowledge (insight) & nibbana through personal experience.
So Bhavanamaya panna doesn't seem to be gained just through vipassana meditation. I was wondering if the Buddha taught a different approach (liberation via vipassana without jhana) in the Satipathana sutta, where the Buddha promised one can become enlightened by just being mindful of the 4 bases for 7 days to 7 years. If we read DN 22 and MN 10 carefully, the prerequisites for such practice are:
"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world."
Who can remain focused on the body or feeling or mind states or the Dhamma in & of itself [b]without distractions/hindrances for 7 days?[/b] One must have obtained very high level of samadhi (at least the 1st jhana) before starting those exercises. Therefore the Satipathana sutta doesn't really seem to support the pure vipassana ("dry insight") approach.
To my understanding all the vipassana approaches mentioned in the previous posts (and all the vipassana methods in the suttas I suppose) belong to or are based upon the four mindfulness.
Metta to all,
Starter
MN 149:
"Any view belonging to one who has come to be like this is his right view. Any resolve, his right resolve. Any effort, his right effort. Any mindfulness, his right mindfulness. Any concentration, his right concentration: just as earlier his actions, speech, & livelihood were already well-purified. Thus for him, having thus developed the noble eightfold path, the four frames of reference go to the culmination of their development. The four right exertions... the four bases of power... the five faculties... the five strengths... the seven factors for Awakening go to the culmination of their development. [And] for him these two qualities occur in tandem: tranquillity & insight (bhavanamaya panna, "supramundane wisdom" probably a better translation?).
"He comprehends through direct knowledge [experiencing] whatever qualities [Dukkha: the five clinging-aggregates] are to be comprehended through direct knowledge, abandons through direct knowledge whatever qualities [cause of dukkha: ignorance, craving and clinging] are to be abandoned through direct knowledge, develops through direct knowledge whatever qualities are to be developed through direct knowledge [tranquility and supramundane wisdom via N8P], and realizes through direct knowledge whatever qualities [true knowledge & nibbana] are to be realized through direct knowledge.
I've realized that insight is a natural product of developing N8P, just like the other factors which aid enlightenment. Bhavanamaya panna is gained through practicing: experiencing and comprehending dukkha (the five clinging-aggregates), practicing and experiencing the abandoning of the ignorance, craving and clinging to the five clinging-aggregates, practicing each single factor of the N8P which will lead to tranquility and wisdom, and finally realizing true knowledge (insight) & nibbana through personal experience.
So Bhavanamaya panna doesn't seem to be gained just through vipassana meditation. I was wondering if the Buddha taught a different approach (liberation via vipassana without jhana) in the Satipathana sutta, where the Buddha promised one can become enlightened by just being mindful of the 4 bases for 7 days to 7 years. If we read DN 22 and MN 10 carefully, the prerequisites for such practice are:
"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world."
Who can remain focused on the body or feeling or mind states or the Dhamma in & of itself [b]without distractions/hindrances for 7 days?[/b] One must have obtained very high level of samadhi (at least the 1st jhana) before starting those exercises. Therefore the Satipathana sutta doesn't really seem to support the pure vipassana ("dry insight") approach.
To my understanding all the vipassana approaches mentioned in the previous posts (and all the vipassana methods in the suttas I suppose) belong to or are based upon the four mindfulness.
Metta to all,
Starter
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:02 pm
How to get insight into the back stage workings of the "magic show"?
`Yo ubhante viditvàna' - He who having understood both ends [probably the external and internal sense bases]
`Majjhe mantà na lippati' - Does not get attached to the middle [probably the consciousness] through wisdom
`Tam brumi mahàpurisoti' - Him I call a great man
`So idha sibbanim accagà' - It is he who has bypassed or escaped the seamstress [craving] in this world.
[from the Pàràyana Vagga of the Sutta Nipàta]
To unravel how delusions arise, the first step would be to stop short at the bare awareness of a sense object. The mental noting method can help achieving this bare awareness by summarily dismisses an object as a mere form/sound/thought ... without being carried away by it and without getting caught in the net of perception. Experiencing how we become aware of a sense object can also shed light on how the arising of the sense consciousness [the aggregate of consciousness] generates a sense of "self" by discriminating the subject and object (see What's mind consciousness and why it's a magic show? posting.php?mode=post&f=13].
The second step would be to watch how perception(s) arise to label/interpret the object:
1) The contact of the three: external/internal sense base and mind;
2) The mind (the "software" of the "biological Robot") becomes aware of an object (e.g. see a form) through sense consciousness, and creates the illusion of "self"/subject; [the aggregate of consciousness]
3) The "software" searches in its "database" ["memory"] and comes up with a labeling/interpretation of the object -- perception; [the aggregate of perception]
4) By perceiving the object as good or bad or neutral as a self-centered response, feelings are generated as pleasant or painful or neutral; [the aggregate of feeling]
5) Then there comes cravings (greed or aversion and so on) ...; [the aggregate of fabrications]
Sometimes we are able to catch our wrong perceptions, but in most cases we aren't able to do so due to our defilements [mainly the delusion of "self"], and we don't realize that the perceptions of a defiled mind are just illusions due to the delusion of "self" and the clinging to this "self". All delusions in the world are traceable to the illusions that are in our perception caused by this delusion of "self". All perceptions are not the reality, but only our labeling/interpretations of the reality. Due to the assavas/defilements [with this delusion of "self" as roots] in the mind, we can't really see things are they truly are without bias, but only the distorted images created by the distorting mirror. As long as the mind is not free from defilements and is still a distorting mirror, we shouldn't trust our perceptions since they are only distorted images.
And that's why we should first empty the mind from the hindrances before we can gain bhavanamaya panna.
Metta to all,
Starter
`Yo ubhante viditvàna' - He who having understood both ends [probably the external and internal sense bases]
`Majjhe mantà na lippati' - Does not get attached to the middle [probably the consciousness] through wisdom
`Tam brumi mahàpurisoti' - Him I call a great man
`So idha sibbanim accagà' - It is he who has bypassed or escaped the seamstress [craving] in this world.
[from the Pàràyana Vagga of the Sutta Nipàta]
To unravel how delusions arise, the first step would be to stop short at the bare awareness of a sense object. The mental noting method can help achieving this bare awareness by summarily dismisses an object as a mere form/sound/thought ... without being carried away by it and without getting caught in the net of perception. Experiencing how we become aware of a sense object can also shed light on how the arising of the sense consciousness [the aggregate of consciousness] generates a sense of "self" by discriminating the subject and object (see What's mind consciousness and why it's a magic show? posting.php?mode=post&f=13].
The second step would be to watch how perception(s) arise to label/interpret the object:
1) The contact of the three: external/internal sense base and mind;
2) The mind (the "software" of the "biological Robot") becomes aware of an object (e.g. see a form) through sense consciousness, and creates the illusion of "self"/subject; [the aggregate of consciousness]
3) The "software" searches in its "database" ["memory"] and comes up with a labeling/interpretation of the object -- perception; [the aggregate of perception]
4) By perceiving the object as good or bad or neutral as a self-centered response, feelings are generated as pleasant or painful or neutral; [the aggregate of feeling]
5) Then there comes cravings (greed or aversion and so on) ...; [the aggregate of fabrications]
Sometimes we are able to catch our wrong perceptions, but in most cases we aren't able to do so due to our defilements [mainly the delusion of "self"], and we don't realize that the perceptions of a defiled mind are just illusions due to the delusion of "self" and the clinging to this "self". All delusions in the world are traceable to the illusions that are in our perception caused by this delusion of "self". All perceptions are not the reality, but only our labeling/interpretations of the reality. Due to the assavas/defilements [with this delusion of "self" as roots] in the mind, we can't really see things are they truly are without bias, but only the distorted images created by the distorting mirror. As long as the mind is not free from defilements and is still a distorting mirror, we shouldn't trust our perceptions since they are only distorted images.
And that's why we should first empty the mind from the hindrances before we can gain bhavanamaya panna.
Metta to all,
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:49 pm
This is how to "realize through direct knowledge whatever qualities [true knowledge & nibbana] are to be realized through direct knowledge" [the last stage]:
MN 111
True knowledge:
"And those states in the first Jhana - vitaka, vicara, pity, sukha and the unification of mind [the five jhana factors]; The contact, feeling, perception, volition and consciousness [the five aggregates – form is included in the contact]; the enthusiasm, decision, energy [effort/persistence], mindfulness, equanimity, and attention - these states were defined [experienced] by him one by one as they occurred; known to him those states arose, known they were present, known they disappeared. He understood thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been, they vanish.’ Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond this,’ ...
--- The vipassana done during the 1st jhana by Ven. Sariputta is by experiencing anicca of the jhana factors, the five aggregates and the path factors, which are all natural part of the jhana experience. It's not done by bare attention of wondering thoughts and so on. As indicated by "the unification of mind", there are no wondering thoughts at all in the 1st jhana.
"Again, bhikkhus, by completely surmounting the base of ‘Nothingness’ Sariputta entered upon and abided in the base of neither perception nor non-perception.
"He emerged mindful from that attainment. Having done so, he contemplated the states that had passed, ceased and changed, thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been they vanished. Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond this,’ and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is.
-- Another way of vipassana by contemplating passed experience.
Nibbana:
"Again, bhikkhus, by completely surmounting the base of neither perception nor non-perception, Sariputta entered upon and abided in the cessation of perception and feeling. And his taints were destroyed by his seeing with wisdom.
-- this "seeing with (supramundane) wisdom" occurring during the cessation of perception and feeling is not through mind consciousness [which is inseparable from perception and feeling], but through the "7th sense" [the "eye" of supramundane wisdom, the pure citta] and is beyond the aggregates.
"He emerged mindful from that attainment. Having done so, he recalled the sates that had passed, ceased, and changed, thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been, they vanish.’ Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is no escape beyond this,’ and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is not’.
Metta to all,
Starter
MN 111
True knowledge:
"And those states in the first Jhana - vitaka, vicara, pity, sukha and the unification of mind [the five jhana factors]; The contact, feeling, perception, volition and consciousness [the five aggregates – form is included in the contact]; the enthusiasm, decision, energy [effort/persistence], mindfulness, equanimity, and attention - these states were defined [experienced] by him one by one as they occurred; known to him those states arose, known they were present, known they disappeared. He understood thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been, they vanish.’ Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond this,’ ...
--- The vipassana done during the 1st jhana by Ven. Sariputta is by experiencing anicca of the jhana factors, the five aggregates and the path factors, which are all natural part of the jhana experience. It's not done by bare attention of wondering thoughts and so on. As indicated by "the unification of mind", there are no wondering thoughts at all in the 1st jhana.
"Again, bhikkhus, by completely surmounting the base of ‘Nothingness’ Sariputta entered upon and abided in the base of neither perception nor non-perception.
"He emerged mindful from that attainment. Having done so, he contemplated the states that had passed, ceased and changed, thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been they vanished. Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond this,’ and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is.
-- Another way of vipassana by contemplating passed experience.
Nibbana:
"Again, bhikkhus, by completely surmounting the base of neither perception nor non-perception, Sariputta entered upon and abided in the cessation of perception and feeling. And his taints were destroyed by his seeing with wisdom.
-- this "seeing with (supramundane) wisdom" occurring during the cessation of perception and feeling is not through mind consciousness [which is inseparable from perception and feeling], but through the "7th sense" [the "eye" of supramundane wisdom, the pure citta] and is beyond the aggregates.
"He emerged mindful from that attainment. Having done so, he recalled the sates that had passed, ceased, and changed, thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been, they vanish.’ Regarding those states, he abided un-attracted, un-repelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is no escape beyond this,’ and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is not’.
Metta to all,
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:52 pm
Just realized Bhavanamaya panna is probably the wisdom of the citta (the "7th sense") devoid of defilements. It's not dependant upon the six senses including the mind consciousness; therefore it can't be gained through reading, sensing and thinking. Only when our defilements are removed or sufficiently suppressed, when the mind turns into the "calm water" from the "stormy water", the wisdom of the citta ("the heart") can shine/penetrate through. The more stable the mind, the more the penetration .
Does that mean we only need samadhi without vipassana in order to reach this wisdom? Apparently not. Why not? Before we become liberated, the mind in samadhi is not yet the pure/undefiled citta, but only with defilements/hindrances sufficiently suppressed. We need to contemplate and experience anicca/dukkha/anatta of the conditioned Dhammas (5 aggregates, 6 sense sets, ...) with the calmed mind in order to remove these defilements through the penetration of Bhavanamaya panna, to finally reach the undefiled/unconditioned state. And the undefiled/unconditioned state has no ignorance but transcendental wisdom.
Metta to all,
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Does that mean we only need samadhi without vipassana in order to reach this wisdom? Apparently not. Why not? Before we become liberated, the mind in samadhi is not yet the pure/undefiled citta, but only with defilements/hindrances sufficiently suppressed. We need to contemplate and experience anicca/dukkha/anatta of the conditioned Dhammas (5 aggregates, 6 sense sets, ...) with the calmed mind in order to remove these defilements through the penetration of Bhavanamaya panna, to finally reach the undefiled/unconditioned state. And the undefiled/unconditioned state has no ignorance but transcendental wisdom.
Metta to all,
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:56 pm
However, in order to suppress hindrances/purify our mind and gain samadhi, “mowing and pruning” is necessary for removing specific defilements/hindrances. Such “mowing and pruning” is "learning in heart" --learning by practicing. We should indeed not only do the general contemplations of five aggregates/"keep the light on in the movie theater", but also should apply the insight, investigate each specific attachment and overcome each specific defilement. Here is my understanding of the Buddha's path for how to develop bhavanamaya panna:
1) Sila: for overcoming the conduct- level defilements, includes the first 5 steps of N8P (from Right view to Right mindfulness) or 10-fold noble path (N8P plus Right knowledge and Right liberation):
Learning the true dhamma/reflective acceptance of the dhamma while having admirable teachers/friends/companions/comrades
→ Right view/understanding [right view of the law of karma to start the mundane path and right view of the 4NT to start the supramundane/Noble path → Faith (saddhā)]
→ Right intention [non-craving, non-greed; non-ill will, non-malice, non-harming, non-hostility; non-ignorance, non-delusion (no wrong views)]
→ Right attention (yoniso manasikara) [distinguishing wholesome and unwholesome mental states; the 4 exertions -- arousing and developing the skilful, avoiding and abandoning the unskillful]
→ Right speech [no deliberate, deceitful false / malicious / harsh / pointless / hurried / untimely / extolling or disparaging ... -- no un-wholesome/un-beneficial speech]
→ Right conduct [mental conduct & bodily conduct: no killing / stealing /sexual misconduct ...]
→ Right livelihood [wholesome, beneficial livelihood; contentment]
After being be of moral habit, live controlled by the control of the Obligations, endowed with right behavior and livelihood, seeing danger in the slightest fault and diligently undertaking the training rules [善护其身]:
2) Samadhi: for overcoming the thought-level defilements
→ Right effort
[Sense restraint, keep the mind centered inside (e.g. on the breath), not reacting with craving or aversion to sensory objects, 少欲、 少事、少务; in particular moderation in eating;
Being wakeful and watchful -- cleansing the mind of obstructive mental states ;
Full awareness and clear comprehension (clearly comprehend what to do, why do it, what's the consequence, how to do it, ..., not acting out of ignorance/negligence/habits]
善护其身, 守诸根门, 善系心住; 若比丘身身观念住，念住已系 念住不忘，尔时方便修念觉分:
→ Right mindfulness [of body/feeling/mind/the Dhamma (including the 4NT)] -- Anapanasatti
[1) Start with mindfulness of breathing until no detectable in/out breath at the nostrils -- no bodily fabrication: 繫意鼻頭, 觉知一切身行(入息、出息; experience the bodily fabrications - in and out breathing), 觉知一切身行休息[experience the stilling of breathing], 系念乃至息灭; 息從心出/入: 若息從心出亦復知從心出。若息從心入亦復知從心入。
2) Then practice mindfulness of feeling until no mental fabrication: while breathing experience bodily feeling (piti), experience mental feeling (sukha), experience mental fabrication, experience the stilling of mental fabrication;
3) Then practice mindfulness of mind: while breathing 心觉知 [experience mind states -- Satipatthana ；心悦,心定 (samadhi),心解脱觉知;
4) Then practice mindfulness of the Dhamma: while breathing 观无常，断，无欲，灭.]
修念觉分已，念觉分满足。念觉满足已，于法选择、思量，尔时方便修择法觉分:
→ Investigation, analysis and contemplation of the Dhamma (dhamma-vicaya):
1st Noble truth: 5 clinging aggregates (and 6 sense sets / 4 elements / 5 hindrances);
2nd Noble truth: dependent origination
3rd Noble truth: nibbana
4th Noble truth: 10-fold Noble path / 7 enlightenment factors / 3 characteristics
→ Unshakable faith
修择法觉分已，择法觉分满 足。于法选择、分别、思量已，得精勤方便，尔时方便修习精进觉分:
→ Ardency/energetic effort to remove 5 hindrances (viriya) [to strive to practice in accordance with the true teachings (during daily practice), and clearly distinguishing between wholesome/unwholesome mental states to suppress 5 hindrances; to be ardent on keeping the mind on the meditation object (during meditation)]
→ Overcoming of the five hindrances [getting rid of covetousness for the world, dwells with a mind devoid of covetousness, he cleanses the mind of covetousness. Getting rid of the taint of ill-will, he dwells benevolent in mind; compassionate and merciful towards all creatures and beings, he cleanses the mind of ill-will. Getting rid of sloth and torpor, he dwells without sloth or torpor; perceiving the light, fully aware and clearly comprehending he cleanses the mind of sloth and torpor. Getting rid of restlessness and worry, he dwells calmly; the mind inward tranquil, he cleanses the mind of restlessness and worry. Getting rid of doubt, he dwells doubt-crossed; unperplexed as to the states that are skilled, he cleanses his mind of doubt].
When being ardent, mindful and clearly comprehending the meditation object during meditation (staying steady and attentive to a single object with one-pointed fixed focus) to have the hindrances suppressed. 修精进觉分已，精进觉分满足。
方便精进已，则心欢喜，尔时方便修喜觉分:
→ Joy(pāmojja); 喜 觉分满足。
欢喜已，身、心猗息 [tranquility]，尔时方便修猗觉分:
→ Rapture (pīti);
→ Tranquility (passaddhi) → Pleasure (sukha)
修猗觉分已，猗觉分满足。
身心乐已，得三昧 (samadhi)，尔时修定觉分:
→ Right samādhi [the 4 jhanas, or any singleness of mind equipped with the seven preceding right factors; "body-witness" ]
修定觉分已，定觉分满足。
定觉分满足已，贪忧则灭，得平等舍，尔时方便修舍觉分:
→ Uppekha [emotional and mental neutrality] 修舍觉分已，舍觉分满足。
3) Panna: for overcoming the root-level defilements
After the mind has reached Samadhi and uppekha, "With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects (defilements), pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations (defilements) ..."
→ Investigation/contemplation of the Dhamma [4 noble truths (including 5 aggregates / 6 sense sets): “He discerns, as it has come to be, that 'This is dhukha ... This is the origination of dukha... This is the cessation of dukha... This is the way leading to the cessation of dukha... These are mental defilements... This is the origination of defilements... This is the cessation of defilements... This is the way leading to the cessation of defilements.'” ].
→ Right knowledge for liberation: (sammā-ñāṇa) true knowledge ["eye-witness" for the four noble truths which include dependent origination & 3 characteristics ...]
→ Disenchantment (nibbidā) → dispassion (virāga) → detachment [remain un-attracted, un-repelled and detached from five aggregates] → cessation [of greed/aversion/delusion and becomings]
→ Right liberation [from Samsara, from five aggregates]: nibbana.
Sila -- Samadhi -- Panna: the Buddha's path is indeed the only way for true liberation, and the noble ones are those who have found, comprehended and possessed the noble path.
Happy New Year! Your comments would be appreciated.
Starter
1) Sila: for overcoming the conduct- level defilements, includes the first 5 steps of N8P (from Right view to Right mindfulness) or 10-fold noble path (N8P plus Right knowledge and Right liberation):
Learning the true dhamma/reflective acceptance of the dhamma while having admirable teachers/friends/companions/comrades
→ Right view/understanding [right view of the law of karma to start the mundane path and right view of the 4NT to start the supramundane/Noble path → Faith (saddhā)]
→ Right intention [non-craving, non-greed; non-ill will, non-malice, non-harming, non-hostility; non-ignorance, non-delusion (no wrong views)]
→ Right attention (yoniso manasikara) [distinguishing wholesome and unwholesome mental states; the 4 exertions -- arousing and developing the skilful, avoiding and abandoning the unskillful]
→ Right speech [no deliberate, deceitful false / malicious / harsh / pointless / hurried / untimely / extolling or disparaging ... -- no un-wholesome/un-beneficial speech]
→ Right conduct [mental conduct & bodily conduct: no killing / stealing /sexual misconduct ...]
→ Right livelihood [wholesome, beneficial livelihood; contentment]
After being be of moral habit, live controlled by the control of the Obligations, endowed with right behavior and livelihood, seeing danger in the slightest fault and diligently undertaking the training rules [善护其身]:
2) Samadhi: for overcoming the thought-level defilements
→ Right effort
[Sense restraint, keep the mind centered inside (e.g. on the breath), not reacting with craving or aversion to sensory objects, 少欲、 少事、少务; in particular moderation in eating;
Being wakeful and watchful -- cleansing the mind of obstructive mental states ;
Full awareness and clear comprehension (clearly comprehend what to do, why do it, what's the consequence, how to do it, ..., not acting out of ignorance/negligence/habits]
善护其身, 守诸根门, 善系心住; 若比丘身身观念住，念住已系 念住不忘，尔时方便修念觉分:
→ Right mindfulness [of body/feeling/mind/the Dhamma (including the 4NT)] -- Anapanasatti
[1) Start with mindfulness of breathing until no detectable in/out breath at the nostrils -- no bodily fabrication: 繫意鼻頭, 觉知一切身行(入息、出息; experience the bodily fabrications - in and out breathing), 觉知一切身行休息[experience the stilling of breathing], 系念乃至息灭; 息從心出/入: 若息從心出亦復知從心出。若息從心入亦復知從心入。
2) Then practice mindfulness of feeling until no mental fabrication: while breathing experience bodily feeling (piti), experience mental feeling (sukha), experience mental fabrication, experience the stilling of mental fabrication;
3) Then practice mindfulness of mind: while breathing 心觉知 [experience mind states -- Satipatthana ；心悦,心定 (samadhi),心解脱觉知;
4) Then practice mindfulness of the Dhamma: while breathing 观无常，断，无欲，灭.]
修念觉分已，念觉分满足。念觉满足已，于法选择、思量，尔时方便修择法觉分:
→ Investigation, analysis and contemplation of the Dhamma (dhamma-vicaya):
1st Noble truth: 5 clinging aggregates (and 6 sense sets / 4 elements / 5 hindrances);
2nd Noble truth: dependent origination
3rd Noble truth: nibbana
4th Noble truth: 10-fold Noble path / 7 enlightenment factors / 3 characteristics
→ Unshakable faith
修择法觉分已，择法觉分满 足。于法选择、分别、思量已，得精勤方便，尔时方便修习精进觉分:
→ Ardency/energetic effort to remove 5 hindrances (viriya) [to strive to practice in accordance with the true teachings (during daily practice), and clearly distinguishing between wholesome/unwholesome mental states to suppress 5 hindrances; to be ardent on keeping the mind on the meditation object (during meditation)]
→ Overcoming of the five hindrances [getting rid of covetousness for the world, dwells with a mind devoid of covetousness, he cleanses the mind of covetousness. Getting rid of the taint of ill-will, he dwells benevolent in mind; compassionate and merciful towards all creatures and beings, he cleanses the mind of ill-will. Getting rid of sloth and torpor, he dwells without sloth or torpor; perceiving the light, fully aware and clearly comprehending he cleanses the mind of sloth and torpor. Getting rid of restlessness and worry, he dwells calmly; the mind inward tranquil, he cleanses the mind of restlessness and worry. Getting rid of doubt, he dwells doubt-crossed; unperplexed as to the states that are skilled, he cleanses his mind of doubt].
When being ardent, mindful and clearly comprehending the meditation object during meditation (staying steady and attentive to a single object with one-pointed fixed focus) to have the hindrances suppressed. 修精进觉分已，精进觉分满足。
方便精进已，则心欢喜，尔时方便修喜觉分:
→ Joy(pāmojja); 喜 觉分满足。
欢喜已，身、心猗息 [tranquility]，尔时方便修猗觉分:
→ Rapture (pīti);
→ Tranquility (passaddhi) → Pleasure (sukha)
修猗觉分已，猗觉分满足。
身心乐已，得三昧 (samadhi)，尔时修定觉分:
→ Right samādhi [the 4 jhanas, or any singleness of mind equipped with the seven preceding right factors; "body-witness" ]
修定觉分已，定觉分满足。
定觉分满足已，贪忧则灭，得平等舍，尔时方便修舍觉分:
→ Uppekha [emotional and mental neutrality] 修舍觉分已，舍觉分满足。
3) Panna: for overcoming the root-level defilements
After the mind has reached Samadhi and uppekha, "With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects (defilements), pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations (defilements) ..."
→ Investigation/contemplation of the Dhamma [4 noble truths (including 5 aggregates / 6 sense sets): “He discerns, as it has come to be, that 'This is dhukha ... This is the origination of dukha... This is the cessation of dukha... This is the way leading to the cessation of dukha... These are mental defilements... This is the origination of defilements... This is the cessation of defilements... This is the way leading to the cessation of defilements.'” ].
→ Right knowledge for liberation: (sammā-ñāṇa) true knowledge ["eye-witness" for the four noble truths which include dependent origination & 3 characteristics ...]
→ Disenchantment (nibbidā) → dispassion (virāga) → detachment [remain un-attracted, un-repelled and detached from five aggregates] → cessation [of greed/aversion/delusion and becomings]
→ Right liberation [from Samsara, from five aggregates]: nibbana.
Sila -- Samadhi -- Panna: the Buddha's path is indeed the only way for true liberation, and the noble ones are those who have found, comprehended and possessed the noble path.
Happy New Year! Your comments would be appreciated.
Starter
Last edited by starter on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to develop bhavanamaya panna?
by starter » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:16 am
Advice from the Buddha:
"Regarding this monk, I say that he has a task to do with heedfulness. Why is that? [I think:] 'Perhaps this venerable one, when making use of suitable resting places, associating with admirable friends, balancing his [mental] faculties, will reach & remain in the supreme goal of the holy life ...".
I suppose for the working lay people, we should make use of suitable working place (?)/resting place, identify and associate with admirable friends, balance our faith with wisdom and effort with samadhi, and remain heedful/mindful all the possible time.
Metta to all,
Starter
"Regarding this monk, I say that he has a task to do with heedfulness. Why is that? [I think:] 'Perhaps this venerable one, when making use of suitable resting places, associating with admirable friends, balancing his [mental] faculties, will reach & remain in the supreme goal of the holy life ...".
I suppose for the working lay people, we should make use of suitable working place (?)/resting place, identify and associate with admirable friends, balance our faith with wisdom and effort with samadhi, and remain heedful/mindful all the possible time.
Metta to all,
Starter
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- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:56 pm
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