Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby chownah » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:10 pm

TMingyur,
Thanks so much for getting the two links into this topic as they are in my opinion key to the discussion. I'm especially happy that you posted the Adittapariyaya Sutta link:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I had forgotten about this sutta and wish I had put it into that other thread on whether Theravada is realist of not. In my view it is really a very clear statement on how the Buddha wants us to understand and relate to the All.....thanks again!
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Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby manas » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:34 am

.
Last edited by manas on Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby Soe Win Htut » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:34 pm

chownah wrote:Soe Win Htut,
Thank you for having patience in replying to my questions. I see now what you were saying with the title and I agree with it whole heartedly. Indeed we should not attach to ideas like truth or wisdom but only observe them just as we do other things which arise in our experience...I think that by grasping at truth and wisdom is like grasping at an anchor which will hold us back from progressing....but if we observe them and let them go then they will help us progress toward more refined ideas and eventually we hope to selfless awakening.
chownah
P.S. Since you are introducing Dhammanupansana maybe this link will help people like me who are not so familiar with the term...it is a link to Nayanatiloka's Dictionary for the word "Satipatthāna":
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... #satipatthāna
It talks about Dhammānupassanā being the last of the 4 foundations of awareness or mindfulness. Here is an excerpt of that section under the "satipatthana" definition:

"..............
4: Concerning the mental-objects dhammānupassanā he knows whether one of the five hindrances nīvarana is present in him or not, knows how it arises, how it is overcome, and how in future it does no more arise. He knows the nature of each of the five groups khandha, how they arise, and how they are dissolved. He knows the 12 bases of all mental activity āyatana : the eye and the visual object, the ear and the audible object,.. mind and mental-object, he knows the mental chains samyojana based on them, knows how they arise, how they are overcome, and how in future they do no more arise. He knows whether one of the seven factors of enlightenment bojjhanga is present in him or not, knows how it arises, and how it comes to full development. Each of the Four Noble Truths sacca he understands according to reality.

................"

This is just a short excerpt and I suggest people who are not familiar with the term "dhammanupassana" read the entire "satipatthana" definition for some quick background.

chownah


Dear Chownah,

Thanks a lot for your P.S and comments.

We will need to contemplate "everything(conditioned natrue) is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."
And then, It is necessary to contemplate(not to forget) that "the former contemplation of everything is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self" is also impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."

With kind regards,
Last edited by Soe Win Htut on Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for real enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known only but .....they are not for noting, believing, confirming, centering and thinking as reality and real importance.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is just the abandoning the mind-action of centering, grasping, confirming, and attaching the created truths as reality and as of real importance.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/
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Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby Soe Win Htut » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:39 pm

dhamma follower wrote:
Sadhu!

I've had the privilege to meet Sayadaw Ottamassara and listen to his teaching directly from Him. It was a very powerful experience, as I clearly witnessed a direct "transmission" of understanding.

His teaching is not easily discernible with words, but when it happens, it is of great value !

Thanks Soe Win Htut for sharing this!

regards,


Welcome Dhamma friend, Dhamma follower.

Thanks a lot and 3x Sadhu for listening to mp3 talks directly.
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for real enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known only but .....they are not for noting, believing, confirming, centering and thinking as reality and real importance.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is just the abandoning the mind-action of centering, grasping, confirming, and attaching the created truths as reality and as of real importance.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/
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Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby ground » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:44 pm

Soe Win Htut wrote:We will need to contemplate "everything(conditioned natrue) is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."
And then, It is necessary to contemplate(not to forget) that "the former contemplation of everything is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self" is also impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."


There seems to be an error. Thinking that the 2nd contemplation is necessary results from not recognizing that there is nothing beyond the "everything" mention in the context of the 1st contemplation. I guess the conditioned "leftover" of the 1st contemplation is the felt agent that seems to do the contemplation. If this leftover is included in the 1st then who do you want to persuade with the 2nd?


kind regards
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Re: Letting go of the idea of letting go of something

Postby Soe Win Htut » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:26 am

TMingyur wrote:
Soe Win Htut wrote:We will need to contemplate "everything(conditioned natrue) is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."
And then, It is necessary to contemplate(not to forget) that "the former contemplation of everything is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self" is also impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self."


There seems to be an error. Thinking that the 2nd contemplation is necessary results from not recognizing that there is nothing beyond the "everything" mention in the context of the 1st contemplation. I guess the conditioned "leftover" of the 1st contemplation is the felt agent that seems to do the contemplation. If this leftover is included in the 1st then who do you want to persuade with the 2nd?


kind regards


Dear TMingyur ,

Your pointing out is very good and right.

In theory, first contemplation of "everything(conditioned nature) is impermanent and non-self" is also included in everything (conditioned nature).
The first contemplation can be known as insight/wisdom. (Magga sacca).

But in practice, I think most meditators may forget the first contemplation(insight/wisdom) is also included in everything (conditioned nature) which is impermanent and non-self.
So what I mean really is also to know that __
" first contemplation of "everything(conditioned nature) is impermanent and non-self" is also included in everything (conditioned nature) which is impermanent and non-self"
and it is necessary not to forget that it should be contemplated too. That knowing will become the 2nd contemplation after 1st contemplation. It can be known as contemplation upon wisdom/insight/mindfulness again.

eg. Contemplating that pain is impermanent, arise. (1st)
And then " knowing that "Contemplating that pain is impermanent" is also impermanent," arise. (2nd)

What I mean is not to forget that the insight/wisdom/understanding of impermanence is also impermanent.
"Magga sacca is also included in Dukkha Sacca" and Magga sacca is also just to be used only, experienced only and known only but not to be attached and grasped as my way and my raft.

Thanks a lot for your insight question:
kind regards,
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for real enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known only but .....they are not for noting, believing, confirming, centering and thinking as reality and real importance.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is just the abandoning the mind-action of centering, grasping, confirming, and attaching the created truths as reality and as of real importance.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/
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