A sotapanna

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Re: A sotapanna

Postby Virgo » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:01 pm

Hi Tilt,

I am not looking for praise and gain. Do you really think I am interested in those things?

I am not trying to down play things but if someone knows a sotapanna, big-whoop. Of course it really isn't a big whoop, but I look at it this way: If I were a putthujana and I knew a sotapanna, I would simply ask them for advice on any questions of dhamma that I had, I would pay them a gentle respect and, If they would accept it (which I do not because of the day and age) I would make an offering to them. Other than that, I would just leave them alone. So in the end it's not really a big whoop. All it would mean for me would be that I would have someone of Right View that I could ask a question of here and there. I would still just have to live my own life. It would not rock my world. My intention is not to rock any ones world either. If I wanted praise and fame I could do other things for it. I have many talents. Stating you are a sotapanna, without the Buddha around to verify it, will attract as much skepticism as it does praise if not more so. It is not the most economical way to go about getting praise and fame, if you know what I mean. Besides I live in America in a materialist, skeptical society. It is not like Buddhists will even go our of there way to pay respect to me. I bet you that not one person in my life ever bows to me or any thing like because I am a sotapanna. If I wanted people to bow to me I would go be a monk again where Thai women would wait for us monks, in the early morning alms round, sometimes waiting on their knees with their hands in the "wai" position at 5:00 in the morning and give us food, and where people would jump to give you something, know you, pay for your ride in a taxi and so on. I guarantee you that if what I really wanted was admiration, respect, praise and gain, that I would get much, much more of it simply being a monk again rather than stating that I am a sotapanna. That is not the reason to be a monk, but if what I wanted was respect from the Buddhist community I would have to do is be a good monk, It is simply not my intention. It is simply not my intention. My intention was just to share my experience with other people, that's all.

Kevin

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Re: A sotapanna

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:11 pm

Virgo wrote:Hi Tilt,

I am not looking for praise and gain. Do you really think I am interested in those things?
It would seem that you are, given all that you have said, and you have to some extent, gotten that here. If you are extra-ordinary - as you claim of yourself -, there is no real reason to proclaim yourself extra-ordinary-ness in public. The Dhamma is lived.

Stating you are a sotapanna, without the Buddha around to verify it, will attract as much skepticism as it does praise.
It will attract attention, which you have also gotten. This is not about bowing.

If you wanted to share your experience there are ways of doing so without puting yourself on a pedestal, of claiming for yourself a position of honor and respect no one else here claims.

Just as a side question: How long were you a monk?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: A sotapanna

Postby Aloka » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:29 pm

Could I say, respectfully, that it would be really nice to draw a line under this now if it's possible.. and just move on to other more beneficial discussions with the community here.

Personally I have absolutely no interest in public claims of attainment and will continue to regard Virgo in the same way that I view everyone else here....as a fellow practitioner on the path.

_/\_
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Re: A sotapanna

Postby Mukunda » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:29 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
What is useless is this claim. Its potential for harm is significant in that it can mislead others in any number of ways.


What is useless is this going on and on ad nauseum about something that can't be verified one way or the other. :cookoo: I mean really, if the claim could be definitively proven, one way or the other right this very minute, how would it change the way I live my life and practice the dhamma? :shrug:
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Re: A sotapanna

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:30 pm

In response to the last msgs above: Okay.

If anyone has anything more of any actual substance to add, please drop the moderation team a note and we can certainly reopen this thread.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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