Zen Forum International: Coming soon!

by **chicka-Dee** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:25 pm

This is really great!! I will stop by when it is up and running, for sure :thumbsup:

by **davcuts** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:13 pm

This is great news. At the same time it's a bit sad. Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha? I find it odd I could have asked the questions I've been asking here all along at e-Sangha. I didn't because I didn't feel comfortable doing so. I'm conflicted about why that is.

by **ShinMeiDokuJoh** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:13 pm

Dear Christopher, dear all,

this is really good news. I am looking forward for the new Zen Forum :clap:

by **Dharmajim** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:28 pm

This is really great news. The Zen tradition has long needed a place for interaction on the web that respects its own view and history.

I also want to give a nod to the people here at Dhamma Wheel for helping to assist in this endeavor; that's a wonderful example of constructive interaction of traditions.

Dharmajim

by **Peter** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:35 pm

davcuts wrote:Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha?

Remember the Terms of Service you agreed to when you joined this forum?

"Any subject matter that may be off-topic or is intended only to cause disruption or harm to others may be removed without notice. This includes the badmouthing of other Buddhist discussion forums, trolling and proselytizing."

Answering your question will result in badmouthing, don't you think?

by **Tex** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:49 pm

davcuts wrote:Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha?

I can only speak for myself, but I haven't broken away from e-Sangha. I still read and post over there -- I'm considering Dhamma Wheel to be a very valuable addition to my online studying, not a replacement. I have a long way to go, I'll learn anywhere I can!

by **christopher:::** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:44 am

davcuts wrote:This is great news. At the same time it's a bit sad. Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha? I find it odd I could have asked the questions I've been asking here all along at e-Sangha. I didn't because I didn't feel comfortable doing so. I'm conflicted about why that is.

No need for anyone to choose one place and reject another.

E-sangha is a wonderful resource. Great teachers, great place to find information. Great place to meet fellow practitioners, to discuss our practice and learn from one another. No Internet forum is going to be perfect. Some people are bound to feel uncomfortable in any forum, encountering challenges and difficulties.

Fortunately, when you are open to it, adversity can be a great great teacher...

:bow:

"The results of karma cannot be known by thought, and so should not be speculated about. Thus, thinking, one would come to distraction and distress. Therefore, Ananda, do not be the judge of people; do not make assumptions about others. A person is destroyed by holding judgments about others."

-Anguttura Nikaya

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Adverse circumstances test our courage, our strength of mind, and the depth of our conviction in the Dharma. There is nothing exceptional about practicing Dharma in a good environment and atmosphere. The true test is if we can maintain our practice in adverse conditions.

-Geshe Ngawang Dhargyey, "Advice From a Spiritual Friend"

:heart:

by **Jechbi** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:58 am

Hi Peter,

Peter wrote:
davcuts wrote:Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha?

... Answering your question will result in badmouthing, don't you think?

No, I don't think so. I think it's perfectly possible for people to discuss E-Sangha, and even discribe ways in which it could be improved, without badmouthing E-Sangha. I think people here have demonstrated that.

E-Sangha is great. DhammaWheel.com is a little more comfortable for me personally, in part because DhammaWheel.com moderators and admins actually welcome public criticism of the forum. That makes a huge difference in the overall tone of the board and sense of community. But both boards are a great service.
:focus:

Contrats on the new Zen Forum coming soon. That's awesome.

Metta
:smile:

by **jcsuperstar** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:02 am

e-sangha's "problem" is that they've done a damn good job of keeping out the weirdos, but in doing so it set up rules that are easily broken by groups who though mainstream have ideas that conflict with other (maybe most other?) buddhist groups represented on e-sangha. i'm always supried what gets shut down and what doesnt over there...

by **davcuts** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:12 am

Peter wrote:
davcuts wrote:Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha?

Remember the Terms of Service you agreed to when you joined this forum?

"Any subject matter that may be off-topic or is intended only to cause disruption or harm to others may be removed without notice. This includes the badmouthing of other Buddhist discussion forums, trolling and proselytizing."

Answering your question will result in badmouthing, don't you think?

It doesn't have to be. There has been a change recently at e-Sangha. Pretending there is not is like not acknowledging a huge elephant in the room. Doesn't mean everyone has to bad mouth it. I'm still a member of e-Sangha and have no desire to leave. Still it's not like it was when I joined almost two years ago. I even stated so at e-Sangha. The fact there is a new Theravada forum, and a new Zen forum shows a lot of other people have noticed that change. Is making these remarks mean I'm bad mouthing e-Sangha? I don't think so. I love e-Sangha and right after I post this I'm going to go there and see what is newly posted. Then I'm off to the Buddhist Lounge, when the new Zen forum opens no doubt I'll want to hang out there as well.

Take care,
David

by **christopher:::** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:19 am

Just as this issue is coming up here, one of the difficulties we are going to have to work with at our new forum is that there will be ZFI members who have strong negative feelings about E-sangha. There will be moderators as well.

We are going to start with similar terms of service as Dhamma Wheel, but this topic will come up. How to allow conversation and discussion and criticism without stepping over boundaries into wrong speech, animosity and attachment to views?

I don't have an answer to that. We'll have to figure this out as we go along. For myself, personally, I am doing all I can to cultivate positive thoughts and feelings about E-sangha, the place where I met most of my closest online friends.

Sometimes people just need to vent. But if you take the time to reflect on "negative" life experiences there is usually a bit of dharma understanding that can be taken away from every situation. If something happened in your life, there is often a reason, imo.

Something to be learned there.

:group:

Considering the harm others do to you
As created by your former deeds, do not anger.
Act such that further suffering will not be created
And your own faults will disappear.

-Nagarjuna, "Precious Garland"

by **tiltbillings** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:25 am

This discussion of E-Sangha was been, so far, thoughtfully stated. It is a delicate area to tread given that, as Christopher states, there are strong negative feelings towards E-Sangha out there. We do have here on DW terms of service of not trashing other forums, and I would ask that any further discussion keeps that in mind.

by **Will** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:29 am

One reason I post so little at Esangha is just that it is too big and too many posts fly by before one can even read, much less digest, what is being written.

by **bodom** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:35 pm

Any idea when the site will be up and running? Hopefully soon!

:namaste:

by **piper** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:24 pm

davcuts wrote:Why are people breaking away from e-Sangha?

For some of us the question is: why did e-Sangha break away from me :?:

by **Livindesert** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:55 pm

From what I heard on other forums western Zen is more influenced by Theravada than Mahayana.

by **bodom** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:58 pm

Soto Zen

by **Fruitzilla** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:46 pm

Livindesert wrote:From what I heard on other forums western Zen is more influenced by Theravada than Mahayana.

I'm from northern Europe and I can say the Theravadan approach speaks much more to most of us level-headed protestant folk than the high flying mythological approach of the "standard" Mahayana.
Add to this the western tendency of taking things literal and the perference for a more spartan approach get clearer still.

<insert request for hat-smiley here>

by **Aloka** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:11 pm

Lots and lots of good wishes for the new Zen group and if anyone who's a serious practitioner with any of the main traditions feels like popping in to my group occasionally to help out with newcomers, you'll be very welcome.

.

by **christopher:::** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:25 pm

Hi friends. Sorry for the delay. We have a board but are still working out many kinks. I gave the url on page 1 but just deleted it cause we'd rather not have people register yet. The mod/admin team is still trying to figure out how to fly one of these babies, lol. Your patience is appreciated. Please enjoy the snacks and free beverages in the Dhamma Wheel viewing area here until um... until our captain and crew is sure we won't be slamming into any low flying mountains...

cough cough...

thank you!

:alien: