Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Includes our Terms Of Service (please read first)

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby zavk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:33 pm

andre9999 wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:LOL :) Um, Dude, that picture of the head on a stick doesn't exactly make me feel at home either :)


What kind of person doesn't like PEZ candies?!


I used to get suckered by those things (i.e. whatever characters they were featuring) only to realise that 'Wait a minute, this doesn't taste that good.' But I'd do it over and over again.

On a different note, a friend on FB posted something which might be relevant here:
Attachments
internet is wrong.jpg
internet is wrong.jpg (19.49 KiB) Viewed 427 times
Last edited by zavk on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
With metta,
zavk
User avatar
zavk
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:36 pm

Suggestions for improvement?

1. At ZFI we had an Ombudsperson for a while, whose role was to represent disgruntled member and mediate between members and the mod team when conflicts arose. In some ways it was valuable because disgruntled members felt they had someone "on the inside" tuned to their concerns. One of the concerns was what power should the Ombudsperson have? A vote like a moderator, more, less?

2. Another thing that was once suggested is to allow some specific space for discussions of the board, including mod actions, with a a least a modicum of civility. That was voted down but it would have been interesting to see it tried for a little while at least to help transparency.

3. Get-togethers are happening, perhaps other community-building initiatives would be good too. There are study groups already, but perhaps also a meditation journal thread, synchronised sits, temple visits + dana etc..?

Just a few possibilities that popped up.
_/|\_
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby phil » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:40 pm

Personally I wouldn't care if some idiot chose to blog that the Buddha is a XXX , so I certainly don't care if someone chooses to spend valuable time during his or her rare human existence to blog about an internet forum. I've spent quite a lot of time in internet groups and while I'm sure we all agree that it's great to have a place to exchange appreciation of the Buddha's teaching, there is a tendency to get attached to these places and they become central to our practices which is a bit weird/unwise when you think of it.

But I do appreciate Dhammawheel. Thanks.

edit- I removed the blasphemous image I presented of the BUddha, a bit overboard.
Last edited by phil on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
User avatar
phil
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby andre9999 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:44 pm

All I really got from this thread and the blog is...

If DW is the worst experience you've ever had on the internet, maybe you should check out 4chan for some perspective.
User avatar
andre9999
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:04 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI, US

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:54 pm

Greetings Dan,

Dan74 wrote:Suggestions for improvement?

Yes, suggestions for improvement. Nice to see we're back on topic. ;) Mawkish will be pleased.

Dan74 wrote:1. At ZFI we had an Ombudsperson for a while, whose role was to represent disgruntled member and mediate between members and the mod team when conflicts arose. In some ways it was valuable because disgruntled members felt they had someone "on the inside" tuned to their concerns. One of the concerns was what power should the Ombudsperson have? A vote like a moderator, more, less?

This has been raised before but it was decided that as site owner, David is in effect the ombudsman, but ombudsman not in the sense of "rooting for the little guy" but in the sense that the word ombudsman is used in the dictionary. Namely, "A man who investigates complaints and mediates fair settlements, especially between aggrieved parties such as consumers or students and an institution or organization." We have a complaints procedure, and David is the last point of escalation on that. For what it's worth though, I think Clyde did a great job of that role @ ZFI.

Dan74 wrote:2. Another thing that was once suggested is to allow some specific space for discussions of the board, including mod actions, with a a least a modicum of civility. That was voted down but it would have been interesting to see it tried for a little while at least to help transparency.

Well, in essence that's what the suggestion box and reporting procedure is for... as outlined in the original post.

Dan74 wrote:3. Get-togethers are happening, perhaps other community-building initiatives would be good too. There are study groups already, but perhaps also a meditation journal thread, synchronised sits, temple visits + dana etc..?

We're all for this sort of thing, if people are motivate to instigate such things. The Study Group for example, was originally suggested by jcsuperstar who was at the time not a member of staff. We set him up so that he had the tools required to enable him to manage the group appropriately. Alas, for the current staff, our efforts are consumed with moderating and administrative activities (and regrettably, dealing with malcontents).

Dan74 wrote:Just a few possibilities that popped up.

Appreciated - thanks.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14655
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby phil » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:02 am

Annapurna wrote:
alan wrote:If anyone can tell me how to respond to Hannze without mocking him, I'd like to hear it.
Once, twice, OK. Three times, 6 times? How about every time? Let's face it--if every post is laughably dumb then the only response is to treat it like comic relief. Sorry if this offends those with tender senses, but Hannze has made no effort to clarify his thoughts, good-natured though they may be. Why should I take them seriously?


Alan,

This is not so much about offending others but about harming yourself.



:goodpost:

One of the best I've seen at Dhammawheel. Harsh speech is akusala kamma patha, so thinking it is kind of cool to be rough and easy expressing our views is just burning ourselves. And by harming ourselves, we set up conditions to harm others.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
User avatar
phil
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby christopher::: » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:13 am

phil wrote:Harsh speech is akusala kamma patha, so thinking it is kind of cool to be rough and easy expressing our views is just burning ourselves. And by harming ourselves, we set up conditions to harm others.


I think so too.

I also feel that Jhana4 made some good points earlier. Situations like this come with the territory, of people communicating with one another anonymously, online. We really can't know how people are behaving out in the "real" world. Some may act the same, many might behave quite differently.

But most of us (whether online or offline) will at times hold tightly to our opinions, positions, wishes, identities, expectations, likes, dislikes, etc. Everyone does it, that's the mind clinging, creating self-centric perceptions. "I think this, I have been hurt, I expect this, I dislike that, I am misunderstood, He's a jerk, They are the cause of my suffering, He did this to me, etc."

We can't force one another to drop these perceptions, stop clinging. When we're ready, when we see the futility of blaming others, of holding on to grievances, see the suffering we're creating for ourselves through our attachments and misperceptions, we let go. It's always up to each of us. This is what our dhamma/dharma practice is about, not just the theory, the real meat and potatoes.

In my view the DW staff has gone way out of their way to address Jechbi's grievances, give him space to air his views. Tilt has apologized, now its up to Jechbi to accept that and let go, move on. Until then, he's got his blog, he can vent for as long as he needs to, the DW staff doesn't have to respond to him or satisfy all his expectations and demands. Neither do they have to silence or ban him.

Just let go, and let him work it out in his own time.

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
christopher:::
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby christopher::: » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:25 am

zavk wrote: Image


:goodpost:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
christopher:::
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Kenshou » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:31 am

In the context of the general state of the internet this forum is pretty high-quality.
Kenshou
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Aloka » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:44 am

Kenshou wrote:In the context of the general state of the internet ......


Oh blimey....is that the time....what day is it?

Image
User avatar
Aloka
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Kenshou » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:03 am

Skeleton smoking a cigarette while using the computer day?

Eh?
Kenshou
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Aloka » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:28 am

Kenshou wrote:Skeleton smoking a cigarette while using the computer day?

Eh?


It's meant to portay internet addiction .....

Don't fret, it was only a joke to be taken lightly, and its well past my bedtime now ! :)
User avatar
Aloka
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Kenshou » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:03 am

D'oh, I get it.
Kenshou
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jechbi » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:19 am

I should have made this much more clear earlier in the thread: Tilt, please know that I do very much appreciate and accept your apology. I regard your apology as a generous gift. I don't believe I've ever directly asked for an apology. At those times when I've felt that you "owed" me an apology, I have tried to let it go. I have never expected an apology. Since you have offered this gift, I am very happy to accept it now. Thank you very much.
User avatar
Jechbi
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:00 am

Jechbi wrote: Thank you very much.
You are welcome.

Jechbi wrote: I have never expected an apology.
I know the feeling all too well.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19386
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:02 am

retrofuturist wrote:Nice to see we're back on topic. ;) Mawkish will be pleased.
:) alas, like all things, it was temporary :lol:
Mawkish1983
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jechbi » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:08 am

I'd like to clarify that the blog was never intended to make any misrepresentations, and if it contains any, I hope I have addressed them. If not, I will do so upon specific request. (Tilt, I've changed the wording in the "mindful masturbation" reference. You have persuaded me that I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I apologize for misunderstanding you. I also wish to articulate to you exactly the same apology: It was never my intent to be hurtful to you, but that does not excuse my behavior. By acts of commission and omission, for what I pain I have caused you, I am sorry.)

I'd like to clarify that the blog was never intended to be a place to "vent." It was supposed to be a place to open up discussion that cannot occur otherwise. Yes, I have offered criticism. Yes, I have provided a few examples of instances when I think discussion on Dhamma Wheel (and elsewhere) was counterproductive to the goal of sharing Dhamma. I have tried to be specific in those cases, and I have tried to focus on the acts that occurred, not the nature of the people involved. I have abiding respect for Tilt, Retro and everyone here as fellow human beings struggling along this hard path.

I believe Jhana4 suggested I go into minutiae in this thread. I don't think that's a good idea in this thread. I don't think the thread is supposed to be about me. If people are interested, they can go to the blog.

Here is my suggestion for how to improve the DW experience: Create a place on the board where members can publicly comment on moderator and administrator decisions, as well as moderator and administrator conduct. Lift the restrictions on that type of criticism. Open yourselves to public criticism here on this board, from any and all members, even if you think the criticism is unfair. And allow the criticism to stand and be visible when it is made (unless there are compelling reasons not to, such as threats or defamation).

If you create such a place on this board, I will take down any parts of the blog that you ask me to, as long as you do not ask me to delete the whole thing. I like some of the non-Dhamma Wheel posts there. Bottom line: If public criticism of moderator and administrator decisions and conduct had been allowed, the blog would have had no reason to exist.

Metta
User avatar
Jechbi
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:11 am

Greetings Jechbi,

Jechbi wrote:Here is my suggestion for how to improve the DW experience: Create a place on the board where members can publicly comment on moderator and administrator decisions, as well as moderator and administrator conduct. Lift the restrictions on that type of criticism. Open yourselves to public criticism here on this board, from any and all members, even if you think the criticism is unfair. And allow the criticism to stand and be visible when it is made (unless there are compelling reasons not to, such as threats or defamation).

....

Bottom line: If public criticism of moderator and administrator decisions and conduct had been allowed, the blog would have had no reason to exist.


May I ask, briefly... what makes you think that these things you speak of cannot already be done freely by members via the Suggestion Box?

The tagline for that forum has always been "Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen."

Have you ever seen anyone raise a suggestion on how the forum can be improved through the proper channels and be mistreated or suspended for doing so? There's quite an archive of suggestions... you're welcome to rifle through them in search of examples. Your perception that there are some kind of "restrictions" on discussing moderator or admin behaviour is completely mis-founded... the only thing not permitted is to send individual topics off-topic through meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about the discussion or its participants - have a look at the link in the TOS about it if you're interested in more clarification on the downside of in-topic meta-discussion).

Accordingly, I'm wondering if this perceived repression is a prison of your own making, based on some wrong assumptions of what is and is not permissible? I hope so... because that is something we can work together to fix. If you have any doubt or questions, please ask. I have spent much time trying to explain these things to you, and it often feels like banging my head against a brick wall, but if you possess genuine good will in your dealings with me/us (no spin, no lip-service), I will continue to try.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14655
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:15 am

Dear M.
Mawkish1983 wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Nice to see we're back on topic. ;) Mawkish will be pleased.
:) alas, like all things, it was temporary :lol:

So the thing that would most improve your DWE would be for members to stay on topic?

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10271
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:23 am

Jechbi wrote:I'd like to clarify that the blog was never intended to make any misrepresentations, and if it contains any, I hope I have addressed them. If not, I will do so upon specific request. (Tilt, I've changed the wording in the "mindful masturbation" reference. You have persuaded me that I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I apologize for misunderstanding you. I also wish to articulate to you exactly the same apology: It was never my intent to be hurtful to you, but that does not excuse my behavior. By acts of commission and omission, for what I pain I have caused you, I am sorry.)
I accept your apology and your offer of changing of the entries is appreciated. And my offer to talk prvtly still stands, if you feel it is necessary.

Here is my suggestion for how to improve the DW experience: Create a place on the board where members can publicly comment on moderator and administrator decisions, as well as moderator and administrator conduct. Lift the restrictions on that type of criticism. Open yourselves to public criticism here on this board, from any and all members, even if you think the criticism is unfair. And allow the criticism to stand and be visible when it is made (unless there are compelling reasons not to, such as threats or defamation).

If you create such a place on this board, I will take down any parts of the blog that you ask me to, as long as you do not ask me to delete the whole thing. I like some of the non-Dhamma Wheel posts there. Bottom line: If public criticism of moderator and administrator decisions and conduct had been allowed, the blog would have had no reason to exist.
My intial response to something like this is that it tends to vitiates any apology (as above) and that it is a bit "blackmail-ish." I suspect it will, however, be discussed, but honestly after the above statements by the members here, I am not sure it really matters if your blog stays as is or if you opt to change it. I think, however, for all involved changing it, decreasing its negativity, would be the better way to go. We shall see.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19386
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests