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Did the Buddha teach that we have choice? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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robertk
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby robertk » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:10 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:17 am


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Hanzze
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:34 am

"Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?"
Yes, we just need to leave our habits. Caught in our habits, we have no choice. We are just moved by cause and effect. So its up to the monkey to calm down. Just give him a chance or let him run wild till he is tired.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Sanghamitta
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:49 am

The original debate could only have occured to western consciousness influenced no matter how indirectly and how unconsciously by Calvinism and so arriving at a doctrine of the division between the Predestination of the Buddhist Elect and those who are eternal incarnation fodder.

I hasten to add I meant by the original debate the one that Tilit linked to.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

plwk
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby plwk » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:35 am

Reminds me of the many debates on icchantikas.... :coffee:

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piotr
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby piotr » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:00 am

@Tiltbillings, I think that the most straightforward answer to your question is found in Kusala Sutta ().
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

Nyana
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Nyana » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:47 am


tinhtan
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby tinhtan » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:55 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:25 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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kirk5a
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby kirk5a » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:54 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Viscid
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Viscid » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:56 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:43 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:53 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Nyana
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Nyana » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:51 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:37 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:06 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:16 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Goofaholix
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:58 pm

I think if one were to read some scriptures with a very literal mind then one can make a good case for determinism and that we have no choice.

However I don't think the Buddha intended his teaching to be understood as a collection of doctrines to be believed, rather as a process of awakening to be followed.

So the key for interpreting any teaching is primarily what affect does it have on the process of practising the path to awakening.

Establishing an awareness of all the different causes and conditions that push or pull our decision making process is an important part of awakening, this awareness gives us many more options to choose from, gives us much more freedom to choose what is right.

However to say everything comes down to causes and conditions and therefore we have no real choice to me is the antithesis of what the Buddhist path is trying to achieve, it's downgrading us to the level of animals living on instinct rather than upgrading us to enlightenment where we are no longer slaves to causes and conditions. If that were true Buddhist teaching then I wouldn't choose to be a Buddhist.

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mikenz66
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:13 am


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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach strict determinism?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:14 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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