Collective Kamma

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Collective Kamma

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:59 am

Hi all,

In Theravada is collective kamma discussed? If so, how does it work?

Thanks :namaste:


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kc2dpt
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:11 pm

- Peter


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GrahamR
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Collective Kamma

Postby GrahamR » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:19 pm

quote="Drolma"]Hi all,

In Theravada is collective kamma discussed? If so, how does it work?

Thanks :namaste:[/quote]

There was a lot of discussion in the Buddhist press about this when Sharon Stone put her foot in her mouth over suggesting the Chinese earthquake was a kammic effect of China's actions in Tibet. And she had met the Dalai Lamma.
Basically you produce your own Kamma.
With metta :bow:
Graham

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clw_uk
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby clw_uk » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:26 pm

Buddha states being are owners of their kamma.

If there is collectice kamma no one can reach nibbana since there would always be someone else to hold one back



:namaste:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:45 pm



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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Jechbi » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:24 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:36 am

Greetings Drolma,

I don't think there's anything in the five niyamas that suggests collective kamma in any way.

It's interesting to note that when Peter says there are incidents of the "a group of people committed an act together and at some later date suffer the result together" type in the scriptures, this is correct... but generally speaking tales these aren't in the actual suttas, they are in the Jatakas and the Stories from the Commentaries. Whether one chooses to give credence to them depends on how authorative one considers such legends to be.

Generally speaking such incidents would require some kind of 'alignment of cosmic factors' or other mysterious forces of coercion and influence to contrive such results. Bringing the intricate web of causal events in such a way as to fabricate a scenario such that kamma can poetically come to fruit is not the kind of kamma that the Buddha taught about. He taught about a direct relationship between wholesome and unwholesome mindstates and the discernible results of those volitional actions. He also taught about transcending the ups and downs of kamma and vipaka through wisdom, and seeing things as they really are.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Element

Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Element » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:26 am

If kamma was 'collective', enlightenment would probably be not possible.

One could not paddle against the stream of a world immersed in ignorance and blindness.

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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby thecap » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:17 pm


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Rui Sousa
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Rui Sousa » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:29 pm

I believe that what I have read and eared so far means that there is no collective Kamma. To me the crystal of salt simile () clearly dismisses that notion of collective Kamma.

Also I believe there what I call coincident Kamma. Meaning that two different actions by two different people may lead to the same result, as when two completely different actions may lead different individuals to the same hell realm. Or the same action leading to the same result as developing the Jhanas is a precondition for rebirth on a certain heavenly realms.
With Metta

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:03 am

Good stuff! Thanks everybody :anjali:


green
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby green » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:44 am

Actually there was a Sutta in which when a priest asks whether or not there is individual karma or collective karma -- Buddha states that it is an incorrect question and states the Patitya samutpada.

So Buddha refrains from talking about Karma (collective or individual) and only speaks of karma in terms of the Patitya samutpada. Karma is associated with sankhara stage in the cycle.

Too bad I forgot the sutta's name. :toilet:

Element

Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Element » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:42 am


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:37 am



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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:54 am

there was a lot of talk about this around the time of the big tsunami.
i dont buy into it. seems like a hindu thing...
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:39 am


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Re: Collective Kamma

Postby RAIN » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:37 pm

just kamma accidental in here? i just post in here some worlds he...
many thing actualy procede whit kamma.. not just bad and wrong, i think ^^


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