across the lines - wrong understanding

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
mudra
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across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:32 pm

In view of a number of on-line spats between members of different traditions, I am developing a theory that:

if you can't relate in a polite and even somewhat inspiring way with other Buddhist traditions, there is something lacking in your understanding of your own tradition.

Please feel free to add to this, refute it, tweak it, whatever - as long as it is with intelligence, compassion, and loving kindness.

It is entirely possible of course that I am a romantic, but I would have thought that with the Buddha as our inspiration we should be able to relate to each other in such a manner.

nathan
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby nathan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:58 pm

My theory is that when I can't see my faults before I see these reflected in the negative responses of another being that I should further examine myself more carefully.

It is always suffering to be separated from what is pleasant and that which we desire or to be presented with that which is unpleasant or which we do not desire. We can't force that to change by imposing our will on others but we can moderate or eliminate suffering by correctly imposing our will on ourselves.

That's what I find works. When I'm not doing it, I find out, could be from someone in any tradition. Could even be from someone of no tradition.
:smile:
metta and upekkha
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

mudra
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:20 pm


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Dhammanando
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:53 pm

Last edited by Dhammanando on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed Mahakassapa to Pilindavaccha.

mudra
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:14 pm

That is food for thought Bhante. There are also examples of this in other traditions. Marpa for example.
However their audience was very targeted and very limited compared to an online forum, wouldn't you say?

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clw_uk
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby clw_uk » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:14 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Dhammanando
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:26 pm

Last edited by Dhammanando on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed Mahakassapa to Pilindavaccha.

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kc2dpt
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:16 pm

- Peter


nathan
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby nathan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:21 pm

Ven. Dhammanando makes an important point.

The same dynamics and conditions pertain to most human beings. I encounter compassionate and wise and ignorant and foolish all mixed together everywhere within and without. Our insight into mundane human behavior in most any company can't serve as a reliable basis for hypothesizing individual insights or capacities which are also internal and privately comprehended. Perfect understanding is one thing and perfect conditions, perfect faculties, facilities and perfect conduct under fragile temporal conditions are all another. Mundane similarities can be relied upon as consistent observations about the mind and body of human beings but fruitful insight into the path and understanding of transcendent awakening are elusive for worldly bound and inclined beings. We all start in ignorance and we all have really only one right path before us at all times, me and all the next beings. We have no choice but to take the next step after the last one wherever this will lead us. I am keen to be led by the Buddha as directly as possible simply because I have not found other better presentations of Dharma anywhere else for my real needs. The Dhamma is everywhere, ever available to be investigated and better known. In clear language the Buddha has clearly spoken and made known what must be known and understood. A monumental task for me simply to then perform in any effort to accomplish it. I don't say this about the Theravada TIpitika teachings because I am inspired to say it. I say this because it is so in my own apprehensions, shallow or deep. This is the source of understanding I need. I trust those who feel and think similarly to teach me. Those who think otherwise will think otherwise.

I remain open to beneficial correction by shooting my mouth off the way I do online sometimes so that where my thinking is over the top or inadequate someone will point it out. If they are wrong, no harm done to me. I am not much interested in contesting a view, even with right view. I'm keen to ascertain as much as possible what is right view and then let go of a subject and act on the understanding I have and walk my path from here to there. It can look to others like the same kinds of harmful contests of views if one is agitated about specific limited truth predominating in various open discussions without sufficient verifiable support from the teachings that it is a truth of greater importance to understanding the subject at hand. We are confident when we can trust in the learned and accomplished to whatever measure possible. What else can we do to learn better?

Careful and accurate wording is hard to achieve sometimes in discussions so if we are all working at clarifying something together as clearly discernible and important it goes really well and when we are contrasting different limited perceptions or interpretations it can easily lead to the self identifications of all kinds. A rule for discussions of some kind which made a priority of maintaining clear distinctions between presenting views and pointed self identifications might be very helpful if it were wisely crafted and easy to understand and apply by most everyone. Keep everyone on the same page maybe.
:smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

mudra
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:18 pm


nathan
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby nathan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:23 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

mudra
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:42 pm


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Ben
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:52 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

mudra
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby mudra » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:05 am

Retro,

Not really a question of artificial unity amongst Buddhists, more like finding common threads. If we were looking for artificial unity then why not make a whole new thing. Accepting differences in traditions doesn't have to lead to denial of another's 'authenticity'.

On the issue of politeness, it is true that there are important figures in the history of Buddhism who weren't necessarily polite, but they inspired very positive reactions. Not a storm of kilesas leading to further confusion.

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Ravana
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Ravana » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:19 am

“The incomparable Wheel of Dhamma has been set in motion by the Blessed One in the deer sanctuary at Isipatana, and no seeker, brahmin, celestial being, demon, god, or any other being in the world can stop it.”

Snowmelt
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Snowmelt » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:51 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:34 am


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Jechbi
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby Jechbi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:25 pm

It takes two to tango, and sometimes we just have different dance styles.

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tiltbillings
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Re: across the lines - wrong understanding

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:57 pm



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