Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

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Individual
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Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Individual » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:05 am



Shaolin are so awesome.
The best things in life aren't things.


Individual
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Individual » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:56 pm

Traditional Okinawan karate masters are awesome too:

The best things in life aren't things.


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Alex123
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:16 pm

They are still mortal and will die like all of us.

I wonder if that stuff that they do will affect their health later on in life... For what? A bullet to the head and the person is dead. What did they spend their life on?




If there is anyone who like to inflict pain on themselves, how about this?

Work extra hours and send me your money. :)
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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BlackBird
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby BlackBird » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:25 pm

While I'm not certain martial arts are in line with the Buddha's teachings, I don't think they're a fruitless exercise Alex. I've met a few black belts and they're more often than not - Very nice, humble and disciplined people. I have thought that taking up a martial art might actually have some benefit on the cushion, or perhaps time on the cushion would have some benefit on the martial art, but there does seem to be a degree of cross over.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Alex123
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:30 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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BlackBird
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby BlackBird » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:51 pm

A good friend of mine is a black belt in Karate, in his dojo they were taught to use their skills only as a last resort, with dialogue and fleeing the first two priorities. The very same guy took a beating once - He's a big guy too. In my opinion the guy who beat him up wouldn't have lasted more than 30 seconds had my friend used his karate, but he didn't feel his life was in danger so he did not fight back.

So feel free to generalize about the potential psychology of Martial artist A, but that is not necessarily applicable to everyone.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:06 am

I agree, Blackbird, one requires quite some time of experience as a martial artist before understanding the psychological state involved.
Moreover, there are many different styles, and many different teachers. Some do teach a kind of aggressive approach, but others are very different and strictly emphasize the protection of others.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:25 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:40 am

I sometimes think that beginners of martial arts may become more aggressive, IF they are the type who is learning for ego purposes, to be the tough guy / gal, etc. Usually these people don't last long, fortunately. Once one is an experienced practitioner, with correct training, however, one can become acutely aware of the damage that one is able to inflict in a few seconds or less, and thus be extremely wary of misuse. A good practitioner will be able to exert enough technique to quell the situation, but no further. Beginners cannot, and tend to use all their power, which can be catastrophic. Moreover, long term practitioners are used to the situation, and thus seldom arise emotions of either fear or anger; again, beginners do not, and easily get angered. It's quite complex. Once a practitioner is a real master, then they'll have different mental states to this, too. Their mind-body connection is incredibly strong and powerful, and this leads to deep states of concentration even whilst active.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:41 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Dan74
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Dan74 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:48 am

I think that we do have a natural aggressive impulse (important for protection in case of conflict). Martial art if taught properly can actually bring this impulse more under control and develop respect and equanimity around it. My son (7) does karate. I have only seen him get less aggressive since he started. He was always amazingly careful and compassionate with insects and animals, but now this quality has also extended to his younger siblings :smile:
_/|\_

Individual
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:10 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Alex123
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Alex123 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:00 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:16 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Guy
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Guy » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:33 pm

If a situation can be resolved peacefully then that is the best first choice.

But if it really came down to a life and death situation, in all honesty, I would value my own life more so than the attackers and would try my best to stay alive. If martial arts helps me achieve this, then that is fine by me. I know that this is a worldly attitude, but I am not an Arahant. Martial arts has its uses, especially for putthujanas like me.

Also, someone trained in martial arts, if faced with a life/death situation, may be able to prevent the attacker from killing them while also avoiding seriously harming the attacker in the process. If this is achieved, and the attacker was intent on killing the martial artist, then surely the application of martial arts in that case is good kamma, especially if the mind of the martial artist is calm while defending themselves.

Anyway, whatever I say or whatever anyone else says about life/death situations is mostly hot air, especially from those of us who have never had to face such situations. The truth is we don't know how we will react until we are in that situation.

May we all avoid those situations entirely.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

Luke
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Luke » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:35 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:16 am

Very good post Luke.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Annapurna
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Annapurna » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:16 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

Luke
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Luke » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:04 pm


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Digger
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Re: Beating yourself up for strength (iron body)

Postby Digger » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:17 pm

I’d like to add to Luke’s excellent post (only problem I saw was that Judo is relatively modern from 1882, maybe he meant Jiu-Jistu as being ancient).

I have many years experience in martial arts. I started in the early 1970’s when Bruce Lee movies were first coming out and the Kung Fu TV show started. I continued through the time of the UFC, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA (mixed martial arts).

I saw it all – high ranking black belts doing unscrupulous things, high ranking karate point tournament fighters getting destroyed by average boxers and street fighters, people claiming that they can knock someone out with their super ninja magic touch or claiming they can knock someone off their feet from across the room (I guess they shoot a ball of Chi out of their forehead at them), etc.

On the other side (reality), I saw smaller Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighters beating much larger and stronger street fighters, boxers, kickboxers, kung fu and karate experts, etc. Many years ago (long before even knowing what Buddhism was) I got in an actual fight and a year of training in a mostly useless karate style did actually help me somewhat.

There is a strange phenomenon that occurs in martial arts and other followings – people in general will follow ridiculous nonsense and put a leader on a pedestal and worship him, even when there is plain evidence in front of them showing that something is wrong. This is true for martial arts and many other things in life.

There is benefit from many martial arts styles – builds confidence, good exercise, way to meet good people and may be a gate to introduce people to the path. If you get good enough you can fend off an attacker without hurting him. There are styles that are realistic and useful.

I don't think that being trained in any martial art will make you more likely to hurt someone if you are a peaceful person. If you are a person who wants to fight others but you don't because you are afraid you will lose, training might give you enough "bad" confidence to do it. And I've seen "less developed" people intentionally hurting others during practice and tournaments.

Good to talk about all this with others here.
He is different. He thinks.


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