Which sutta/s

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Cittasanto
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Which sutta/s

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:58 pm

where is this passage found?

Beautiful in the Beginning, beautiful in the middle, beautiful in the end
with metta
manapa
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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retrofuturist
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Re: Which sutta/s

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:51 pm

Greetings Manapa,

I suspect you're referring to explanations of the Dhamma, such as in

MN 108: Gopaka Moggallana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"He has heard much, has retained what he has heard, has stored what he has heard. Whatever teachings are admirable in the beginning, admirable in the middle, admirable in the end, that — in their meaning & expression — proclaim the holy life entirely perfect & pure: those he has listened to often, retained, discussed, accumulated, examined with his mind, and well-penetrated in terms of his views.


I believe the beginning, middle and end refers to the spiritual path, but it would be good if someone could confirm that from a Classical Theravada perspective.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Which sutta/s

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:02 pm

retrofuturist wrote:I believe the beginning, middle and end refers to the spiritual path, but it would be good if someone could confirm that from a Classical Theravada perspective.

Correct, going from morality to tranquility to wisdom:

Svakkhato: The Dhamma is not a speculative philosophy, but is the Universal Law found through enlightenment and is preached precisely. Therefore it is Excellent in the beginning (Sila — Moral principles), Excellent in the middle (Samadhi — Concentration) and Excellent in the end (Panna — Wisdom).

Anguttara NIkaya 11.12

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Which sutta/s

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:07 pm

i always use this as my guide to know whether anything is wholesome or not, it's a good way to just drop the "ends justify the means" way of thinking many of us may have been brought up with.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Cittasanto
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Re: Which sutta/s

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:08 pm

thanks I tried Beautiful, good, and a couple of others and there were pages with it in regard to the Dhamma, but no sutta references!

:anjali:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill


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