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Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:17 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:34 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:42 pm

For those that maintain bounty-hunting is wrong livelihood, do you also believe police-officer is wrong livelihood? If no, then can you explain what you think the difference is? What makes bounty-hunting wrong livelihood and police-officer right livelihood?
- Peter


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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:45 pm

Last edited by Annapurna on Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:37 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:52 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:32 pm


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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:54 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:05 pm

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby thecap » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:11 am

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:28 am

thecap,

It seems you understand the Buddha's teachings on wrong livelihood to include any profession wherein there is temptation to engage in unwholesome actions. Is that right?
- Peter


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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby thecap » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:39 am


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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:16 am

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:31 am

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby appicchato » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:17 am


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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm

Dear Venerable Appichato, there is actually a Police slogan in Germany which says:

"The Police, your friend and helper."

Of course you have cops tripping over their powerful feet everywhere in the world. . .

May I ask you what you think about bounty hunting- wrong or right livelyhood, or is this a borderline case?

I don't know if you have ever seen the series, but Dog Chapman seems to treat all the people he catches with respect and as much kindness as possible.

I think he is a good guy.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Dhammakid » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:48 am

Hello All,
I want to say a few things, coming from a different perspective on law enforcement.

The question begging to be asked is: why is law enforcement and bounty hunting necessary in the first place? Why is crime so rampant? Are human beings just so bad we have to commit crimes? Or could it be our societal structure (government and leaders) perpetuating the circumstances leading to criminality in order to justify its own existence?

Keep in mind that law enforcement and bounty hunting perpetuates all of the negative qualities of masculinity and manhood - violent chauvinism, state control, macho complexes, etc. 99% of rapes are committed by men. 90% of all violent crimes are committed by men. And yet men think they are fixing the problem by using violence to put us into prisons, which are sometimes more violent and dangerous than the streets? Please be real, people.

The problem isn't about human beings as evil or police officers as providing for some greater good (although I'd definitely argue against that bogus claim), but rather a crisis in masculinity and manhood that perpetuates violence in society, further fueled by the same tired old consistencies from the past - men taking control and exerting power over everyone else.

Without poverty, poorly funded education, lack of universal health care, a wishy-washy economy left to the whims of the wealthy elite, and a host of other intentionally set-up circumstances, crime would not be near as prevalent as it is. Ask any criminologist, psychologist or sociologist.

Human beings might be deluded and selfish, but we are not inherently evil. Society teaches evil to children, and then punishes them for it later. Society teaches boys to be violent.

Law enforcement perpetuates criminality. And because law enforcement is practiced by other deluded beings, this honorable picture you are painting is false to the fullest extent.

Ask a poor minority what they think of the police, I'm positive you will get a different answer. Case in point: my mother sued the city for racial and gender discrimination because they conspired to get her fired from the police force, all because she blew the whistle on nearly a century of racial discrimination of citizens and black officers. Furthermore, evidence suggests they were in cahoots with the IRS (who we are currently battling).

Ever heard of police brutality? If police officers can still do that even though they are subject to watchdog groups, what makes you think bounty hunters are exempt?

The nation's drug policy discriminates against the poor and minority. And let's not even get into how nearly impossible it is for a rape victim to find justice.

Bounty hunting is simply citizens who didn't want to go through police boot camp carrying around guns acting as superheroes. And they are almost always men. If the State really wanted to get drugs off the street, or put criminals to justice, they would do it because they have all the tools necessary on their side. But they don't, because they must justify their own existence. "We need laws because people are evil."

Oh, and Dog the Bounty Hunter was called out last year for spewing racial epithets towards the friend of one his children.

Like I said, we are all deluded. Please stop glossing over the evils of law enforcement.

(Typed in passion but kindness ;) )

Namaste,
Dhammakid

P.S. Yes yes, I know...spoken like a true anarchist ;) I guess I should answer the original question: according to my experiences and my analysis, both law enforcement and bounty hunting amounts to Wrong Livelihood. There are far more productive ways to deal with the unskillful actions of deluded human beings, such as rehabilitation and treatment (as opposed to incarceration), greater funding for public education, guaranteed health care for all, violence prevention education at an early age, greater emphasis on community development and self-sustaining communities, and a host of other great alternatives out there. If law enforcement/bounty hunting isn't decreasing the rate of criminality - in other words, not solving the problem at all - but rather perpetuating the problem (as all credible evidence suggests), then one must conclude the institution is Wrong Livelihood, because it is contributing to the suffering of beings (or at least intentionally ignoring it). That is my opinion. Feel free to disagree. Namaste.
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Ben
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:38 am

Hi Dhammakid and all

The Buddha gave us criteria for determining what constitutes wrong livelihood, it has been mentioned earlier in this thread. In the post I wrote, I suggested that in assessing whether bounty hunting is indeed wrong livelihood, one would need to determine whether the profession was in anyway business or dealing in weapons or business or dealing with human beings,the latter usually interpreted as trade in prostitutes or slaves. One could argue that bounty hunting could breach business with weapons or business in human beings, directly or by proximity, but I would be unconvinced.
I would argue that bounty hunting is not inherently wrong livelihood. However, that is not to say that there is more than ample opportunity for bounty hunters to engage in morally reprehensible or dubious decisions and/or activities in the hunting of their bounty. While there can be no doubt that the end, making bail jumpers accountable for their actions, is a good thing, does the end justify the morally dubious means some bounty hunters of achieving that aim? Having witnessed the portrayal of one high-profile bounty hunter on TV, can we make a judgment that all bounty hunters are likewise engaged in morally reprehensible activities in order to apprehend the wanted?
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Postby Dhammakid » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:57 am

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