Knowledge is not realization!

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Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Hanzze » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:47 am

I:14 Knowledge is not realization

Once there were two bhikkhus of noble family who were good friends. One of them had learned the Tipitaka and was very proficient in reciting and preaching the sacred doctrine. He taught many other bikkhus and became the instructor of eighteen groups of bhikkhus. The other bhikkhu after striving diligently and ardently, attained Arahanthood together with extraordinary knowledge in the course of insight Meditation.
On one occasion, when the second bhikkhu came to pay homage to the Buddha at the Jevatana monastery, the two bhikkhus met. Not realizing that his friend had already become an Arahant, the Master of the Tipitaka looked down on him, thinking that the old bhikkhu knew very little of the sacred Dhamma. So he decided to ask him some questions on the Dhamma. The Buddha knew about his unkind intention and he also knew that as a result of seeking to ridicule a noble disciple the learned bhikkhu would have to suffer. So, out of compassion, the Buddha visited the two bhikkhus to prevent the learned bhikkhu from ridiculing his friend. The Buddha himself did the questioning. He put questions on jhanas and maggas ( higher achievement through meditation ) to the master of the Tipitaka who could not answer them because he had not practiced what he had taught. The other bhikkhu, having practiced the Dhamma and having attained Arahanthood, could answer all the questions. The Buddha praised the one who had practiced and realized the Dhamma but not a single word of praise was spoken for the learned scholar. The resident disciples could not understand why the Buddha had words of praise for the old bhikkhu and not for their learned teacher. The Buddha explained the matter to them by saying that the learned bhikkhu who knows a great deal but does not live in accordance with the Dhamma is like a cowherd, who looks after the cows for wages, while the one who practices Dhamma is like the owner who enjoys the five kinds of produce of the cows. Thus, the scholar enjoys only the services rendered to him by his pupils but not the benefit of Sainthood. The other bhikkhu, though he knows little and recites only a little of the Dhamma, having clearly comprehended the essence of it and having practiced it diligently, has eradicated craving, ill-will and ignorance. His mind being totally freed from mental defilements and from all attachments of this world as well as to the next he truly reaps the benefits of Sainthood or Perfection.


Appam pi ce sahitam bhasamano-
dhammassa hoti anudhammacari
Ragan ca dosan ca pahaya moham-
sammappajano suvimuttacitto
Anupadiyano idha va huram va-
sa bhagava samannassa hoti

~ Dh. 20 ~

Though little he recites the Sacred Texts, but acts in accordance with the teaching, forsaking lust, hatred and ignorance, truly knowing, with mind well freed, clinging to naught here and here-after, he shares the fruits of the Holy life.

From The Dhammapada - K. Sir Dhammananda (pdf-file)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:11 pm

Nice post Hanzze. :clap:
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Hanzze » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:57 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Digger » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm

This seems to me to conflict with:

http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/Agama/An ... aggo-e.htm

Mahacundasuttaü Ý Venerable Mahacunda

005.04. I heard thus. At one time venerable Mahacunda was living in Ceti, in his native place and venerable Mahacunda addressed the bhikkhus:

Friends, the bhikkhus, who study the Teaching depreciate the bhikkhus who develop the mind to higher states. `These say, we raise the mind to a higher state. They concentrate, what do they concentrate and how do they concentrate?' By that the bhikkhus studying the Teaching are displeased and the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher state are displeased. It is not for the good and pleasantness of many, not for the welfare and happiness of gods and men.

Friends, the bhikkhus, who raise the mind to a higher state depreciate the bhikkhus who study the Teaching `These say, we study the Teaching, they are unbalanced, haughty, wavering, talkative, with loose talk, without mindful awareness, not concentrating scatter brained and with uncontrolled mental faculties. What Teaching do they study and how do they study?' By that the bhikkhus raising their minds to higher states are displeased and the bhikkhus studying the Teaching are displeased. It is not for the good and pleasantness of many, not for the welfare and happiness of gods and men.

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhus studying the Teaching praise the bhikkhus studying the Teaching and does not praise the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher degree By that the bhikkhus studying the Teaching are displeased and the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher state are displeased. It is not for the good and pleasantness of many, not for the welfare and happiness of gods and men.

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher degree praise the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher degree and does not praise the bhikkhus studying the Teaching. By that the bhikkhus raising the mind to a higher degree are displeased and the bhikkhus studying the Teaching are displeased. It is not for the good and pleasantness of many, not for the welfare and happiness of gods and men.

Therefore, friends, you should train in this manner.:

We who study the Teaching will praise the bhikkhus that raise the mind to a higher degree. What is the reason?

Friends, it is surprising and rare to find persons in the world, who abide experiencing the deathless element with the body. Therefore you should train thus:

We who raise the mind to a higher degree should praise the bhikkhus studying the Teaching. What is the reason? It is surprising and rare to find persons who understand the deep meanings in the Teaching and penetratingly see it with wisdom.
He is different. He thinks.
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:50 am

Hanzze wrote:Some (like me) only have google to express something, can we call that a kind of knowledge or is that a kind of realization? :D
The world wide knowledge... :smile:


Its the fourth vehicle, googleyana :)
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Hanzze » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:51 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:49 pm

Hi Hanzze,

This is not immediately related to the topic, but do you have a link to the image of a three armed thai monk?!

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Hanzze » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:01 pm

Meanwhile I can only provide with my finders :-)

The picture shows the Buddha sitting on a "chair" from the left side beginning a Layman with a sword pointing with the finger on the Buddha, a monk with a lifted sword pointing on the Buddha in the middle the Buddha right of him a monk moving his spear (just need to laught as the german words for weapons are very similar than the english) torward the buddha with two hands, and right of him another monk with raised sword and in the other hand a shield.

Titel WRONG PRACTICE OF BUDDHA-DHAMMA
The Buddha, here representing the true teaching, is being attacked by three monks and one laymen. The fact that there is only one layman attacking the teachings indicates that many monks, once having been ordinated in the order, continue to follow false path and are attached to ceremony. They are indifferent to the true teachings and prefer the Wheel of Wandering-on to Nibbana.

(Monks, as they are more conspicuous than layman and because they are supposed to be devoting their lives to the Three Gems, and because it is known that they have many precepts to keep pure, can attack the Dhamma by misconduct in a more violent way than is possible for laypeople)



the book was indicated by the ministry of Education, Thailand (in memorial on the birthday of Buddhadasa 27.5. 1906 - 27.5.2006)

You can request the book at http://www.budaedu.org it is just not listed but that is sometimes not actual the code is EN261 if you like to ask.
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby Hanzze » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:03 pm

THE WRONG PRACTICE OF BUDDHA - DHAMMA
Image
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Knowledge is not realization!

Postby CSEe » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:23 am

knowledge in term of Buddha , I want to belief is "awareness" . We are more " aware" when we move to higher "wisdom" /awareness .

On our search towards Buddha I belief that we are all in different "awareness" . Our awareness towards Buddha . when we move to higher awareness we will understand our bad act and regretted . We will rectify our act whether in life or afterlife on our own will .
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