PeterB wrote:
I have qualms about referring on one forum to another. But I am grateful that Tilt reproduced the above post from ZFI because a current concern I have is the claiming of attainments, and I think Buddhihermits references to the wonderful nature of BEING a Stream enterer or may be an Arahant needed a context.
Indeed. I didn't jump in earlier as I thought Buddhihermit was doing a great job of contradicting his own claim. 'Emperor's new clothes' so to speak.
PeterB wrote:The context of the thread Tilt has quoted from makes it clear that the claim to change traffic lights was not a humorous claim. Furthermore it was in conversation with two other people not currently posting on ZFI who I would suspect may have problems with reality.
I thought the added post from ZFI, even without your additional contextual information, was very telling. But thanks for providing the additional information.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
For anyone who follows the link, just to make it clear that my concerns were not about genkaku who is one of the sanest people I know, nor Linda nor Luz...
PeterB wrote:For anyone who follows the link, just to make it clear that my concerns were not about genkaku who is one of the sanest people I know, nor Linda nor Luz...
PeterB wrote:I did. You said that you realised that you could change traffic lights by an act of will by doing a mudra at just the right moment.
I thought that this was meant to be taken ironically, like, if you're able to do a mudra right before the light changes, it might as well seem like you're doing it at your will. It's like some kind of synchronicity. What Tilt posted tells a completely different story.
a current concern I have is the claiming of attainments
a more interesting IMO question would not be what to make up people that claim certain attainments but what to make of people that do so sincerely and know how important it is and so are a little bit mad. i don't think pity is the right word but sympathy would be nice... sympathy and some compassionate re-education
Anyway to answer the original question, I believe that stream entry is incredibly rare in the age and I don't know how the theravada establishment treats these questions but I wouldn't believe it of anyone that wasn't deeply enmeshed in the church. FWIW I associate it with successful cultivation in zen [the ten abodes] or purifying the sense faculties in tendai [the ten faiths]. I'm somewhat open to the possibility that someone like Dogen was like an arhat but maybe just a good writer.
Another question that's a slight derail is about kensho experiences; I think these are related to the stages of heat / summit etc. in theradava; can these really occur within a few months of lay practice
This is an old discussion but if I can add to it: There are no such thing as stream-enterers; that is, "stream-entering persons." This is only a conventional expression, because it is a process of non-becoming, of realizing anatta. Ordinary people don't understand this because they think in terms of self, not understanding the unconditioned they can only know things in terms of this or that conditioned dhamma, with regard to this or that person.
Realizing Anatta and stream entry are not synonymous, no?
with metta
Matheesha
Why not?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Individual wrote:This is an old discussion but if I can add to it: There are no such thing as stream-enterers; that is, "stream-entering persons." This is only a conventional expression
Not ultimately a "person" no but am I right that there is "ultimately" a set of skandhas that enter the path of vision?
There is ultimately no person nor is there anything else that might even seem similar to "personhood." One could use various expressions, but it is still a conventional point of view. Outside points of view, there are no skandhas.
in the path of vision, one does not think even in terms of "this" or "that", because This vs. That is simply a more subtle version of Self vs. Other. This is self, that is other; this is self, those are others. Stream-enterers don't think this way. Overcoming self-view (sakkaya-ditthi) is an obstacle to stream-entry.
In this sense, you could say stream-entry is extremely rare, although ultimately there are no stream-enterers, because it is a process of non-becoming. If stream-entry were something one becomes, it would simply be another realm of samsara to pop in and out of.