Objectionless meditation and inner silence

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:26 am

m0rl0ck wrote:Gee i miss tilt and ben in threads like this :) I know ben is away, but where is tilt?
I just read through this, and I really do not want to get involved in it. But . . . . What is being described in the OP sounds like a fairly easily attained state of being more or less pleasantly "zoned out" in what might be called "inner silence" but which is more like the mind set in neutral gear with the parking brakes on, and which is why an experienced meditation teacher is not a bad idea to kick your butt to get you out of it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19315
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:20 am

:goodpost:
There may be a place for this kind of practice but paradoxically it is not for those without a good deal of meditation experience under instruction.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Sanghamitta
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:50 am

tiltbillings wrote:I just read through this, and I really do not want to get involved in it. But . . . . What is being described in the OP sounds like a fairly easily attained state of being more or less pleasantly "zoned out" in what might be called "inner silence" but which is more like the mind set in neutral gear with the parking brakes on, and which is why an experienced meditation teacher is not a bad idea to kick your butt to get you out of it.

I agree. I've been in that sort of place. It took me a while, and discussion with one of my teachers, to figure out that it was basically the sloth and topor hindrance. In the context of the Mahasi-style approach I use, when that happens now I start noting: "Lazy, lazy, ..."

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10231
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:40 am

mikenz66 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I just read through this, and I really do not want to get involved in it. But . . . . What is being described in the OP sounds like a fairly easily attained state of being more or less pleasantly "zoned out" in what might be called "inner silence" but which is more like the mind set in neutral gear with the parking brakes on, and which is why an experienced meditation teacher is not a bad idea to kick your butt to get you out of it.

I agree. I've been in that sort of place. It took me a while, and discussion with one of my teachers, to figure out that it was basically the sloth and topor hindrance. In the context of the Mahasi-style approach I use, when that happens now I start noting: "Lazy, lazy, ..."
Just sort of blissed out, especially after 2 hours ashtanga yoga practice, with one's blood stream coursing with anandamides and what not. An easy place to get stuck.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19315
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby Individual » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:37 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Gee i miss tilt and ben in threads like this :) I know ben is away, but where is tilt?
I just read through this, and I really do not want to get involved in it. But . . . . What is being described in the OP sounds like a fairly easily attained state of being more or less pleasantly "zoned out" in what might be called "inner silence" but which is more like the mind set in neutral gear with the parking brakes on, and which is why an experienced meditation teacher is not a bad idea to kick your butt to get you out of it.

:goodpost:
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
Individual
 
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:05 am

Ville N wrote:Dear friends in the Dhamma,

here's a question for you. Today after doing my daily ashtanga yoga practice, about 2 hours long, I was relaxing in the corpse pose as is part of the ending sequence. Just completely relaxed, not doing anything physically or mentally...after about 10 minutes or so, I sharpened my awareness just a bit to detach the mind from its usual thought-riding antics. Like many times before, the end result was a mind that became distinctly silent. No thoughts, just soothing silence...and after a while, my alarm went off, got a text message etc.

Now this is not the first time I've experienced this, so it got me wondering: is there any merit in such a meditation method that has no particular object? Is it possible to go further than the silence, or is that it? I mean all I do is just let go first, and then sharpen the awareness just a bit...

And yes, I'd appreciate advice coming from personal meditation experience, since I've already read more than enough books :D

Ville


You know, i was thinking about this thread at work today, and i think i may have done you a disservice with my previous post.
Sure its good to get a teacher and have a method etc., but you know what? There is absolutely no harm in just sitting there grooving on a feeling of whole body and mind well being. So go for it :)

In fact if you read the anapanasati sutta, thats pretty much what its about, the joy of just being. So go for it :)

All of us spiritual searchers get so goal directed at times, imo no harm in taking a little time to let go and smell the metaphysical roses. To hell with the spiritual work ethic :bow:
Joshu was asked,
"When a man comes to you with nothing,
what would you say to him ?"
Joshu replied, "Throw it away!"
User avatar
m0rl0ck
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:14 am

m0rl0ck wrote:In fact if you read the anapanasati sutta, thats pretty much what its about, the joy of just being. So go for it
Probably not.


All of us spiritual searchers get so goal directed at times, imo no harm in taking a little time to let go and smell the metaphysical roses. To hell with the spiritual work ethic
As long as you know what it is that you are doing and not mistaking being blissed out on anandamides as being more than it is.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19315
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby Ville N » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:39 pm

Thanks for the replies, folks. The response was what I was kind of expecting :D

The reason I asked is that during the past year, I finally got rid of my neurotic thinking...Earlier, I used to think all the time, which was really draining...Well, when I made my daily Ashtanga practice full-length, a lot of mental stuff came up, eventually purging my mind from this habit. Feels so calming after all these years, to just be and not think...

However, like pointed out, it's a very low energy method, and the vagueness of the "object" doesn't really help...Also, I'm a bit passive person already, so might actually need more activation than relaxation...

Finding a teacher: Yes, I'd love to. Unfortunately, there seems to be no Buddhist groups in here right now...as for other meditation groups, there's Kundalini Yoga, but that doesn't really interest me. And as for Ashtanga, just plain meditation is taught only after many, many years of asana practice, and preceded by pranayama (breathing practices). The approach seems a bit curious in contrast to the Buddhist straight-to-the-cushion method...the reasoning being that the body and mind need to be properly purified first, in order to avoid problems with excessive inner energy etc. This baffles me a bit, since not everyone can do asana practice all the time...

I'd really like to have a meditation teacher to learn from, since it's so easy to misunderstand these practices...but that might just not happen yet. Well, I could of course just start experimenting on my own again...What I've noticed so far, the stopping of the neurotic thinking certainly helps in keeping the focus on the meditation object, like the soles of the feet when walking...The breath is a bit trickier, as it seems to be loaded with tensions of all kinds...
User avatar
Ville N
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:02 pm
Location: Joensuu, Eastern Finland

Re: Objectionless meditation and inner silence

Postby ground » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:21 am

Actually the Buddha did teach the "objectless concentration". In English translations it is often called "signless concentration" (Bhikkhu Bodhi) or here Thanissaro Bhikkhu calls it "themeless concentration":

"Further, Ananda, the monk — not attending to the perception of the dimension of nothingness, not attending to the perception of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception — attends to the singleness based on the theme-less concentration of awareness. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, & indulges in its theme-less concentration of awareness.

"He discerns that 'This theme-less concentration of awareness is fabricated & mentally fashioned.' And he discerns that 'Whatever is fabricated & mentally fashioned is inconstant & subject to cessation.' For him — thus knowing, thus seeing — the mind is released from the effluent of sensuality, the effluent of becoming, the effluent of ignorance. With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This shows what I have written above
TMingyur wrote:If this concentration remains "static" you may attain blissfull jhanic states. If subtle discernment does not cease in this state then what actually results is concentration conjoined with vipassana.


Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Previous

Return to Theravada Meditation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Goofaholix, Kumara and 5 guests