Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Tex
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:46 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Tex »

The simple fact is: no matter how much Pali and Sanskrit Dammika learns, no matter how many hours he chants and meditates, he will never know Buddhism the way it’s lived by the average Asian who grew up with it. That is why I wrote my book From Buddha to Jesus: An Insider’s View of Buddhism & Christianity (not an academic’s, professional’s or Western view).
So "Steve" claims to "know Buddhism" better than an ordained Buddhist monk (whose Dhamma name he can't seem to spell correctly), yet he believes the following:
There is effectively little difference, in normal parlance, between the Buddhist word “karma” and the Christian word “sin”. Karma is always followed by revenge, curses, and suffering. Sin is always followed by suffering and death.
True Buddhism is following Buddha, an Indian prince who was willing to give up his wealth, his tradition, and even his original religion (Hinduism), to search for the way to be free from karma.
Today Buddhism is a mix of Hindu idol worship, animism and local superstition.
:roll:
"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17186
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by DNS »

Cioccolanti goes on a real rant against Ven. Dhammika! I have not read all of Cioccolanti's rant yet, but see some serious flaws already in his arguments:

1. Evolution does not say that there is spontaneous generation! That was a theory around the time of Darwin that was quickly dismissed. Pasteur showed that you need life to make life. Evolution focuses on natural selection and changes in the gene pool. Evolution rejects spontaneous generation.

2. I don't know much about this Law of information Cioccolanti refers to, but the major driving force is natural selection, not the additions to genomes.

3. What are these "other equally compelling factors" Cioccolanti refers to? The example he uses supports that changes are random and not directed, therefore, no "divine" influence.

And then he has the audacity to claim that he knows more about science than Ven. Dhammika. Cioccolanti is a creationist for Christ-Buddha's sake!?
Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Individual »

TheDhamma wrote:Cioccolanti goes on a real rant against Ven. Dhammika! I have not read all of Cioccolanti's rant yet, but see some serious flaws already in his arguments:

1. Evolution does not say that there is spontaneous generation! That was a theory around the time of Darwin that was quickly dismissed. Pasteur showed that you need life to make life. Evolution focuses on natural selection and changes in the gene pool. Evolution rejects spontaneous generation.

2. I don't know much about this Law of information Cioccolanti refers to, but the major driving force is natural selection, not the additions to genomes.

3. What are these "other equally compelling factors" Cioccolanti refers to? The example he uses supports that changes are random and not directed, therefore, no "divine" influence.

And then he has the audacity to claim that he knows more about science than Ven. Dhammika. Cioccolanti is a creationist for Christ-Buddha's sake!?
The man is a fool, most likely a fraud.

Here he says:
Let’s proceed to Dhammika’s interpretation of Christianity.

On page 4 of his book Good Question Good Answer, he writes: “In Christianity, the fish is used to symbolise Christ’s presence…” (P. 4). Used by whom? This is found nowhere in the Bible, except in one reference to Jesus calling Simon and Andrew to become “fishers of men” (Mark 1:17), which means fish is a symbol of men, not Christ.
See Wikipedia's article on Icthys. It's a fairly common Christian symbol.

See this page on his church's website:
http://www.discover.org.au/supportus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
User avatar
Wu-Wei
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:23 am
Location: Asia

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Wu-Wei »

Hmmmm ... something smells "fishy" ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtamangala" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
puthujjana
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by puthujjana »

Wu-Wei wrote:Image

:shock:

I'm really shocked :shock:

Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...
"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."
- Ajahn Chah
User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by kc2dpt »

puthujjana wrote:Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...
Because they believe you either get it right in this life or you are screwed for eternity. :toilet:
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22390
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Ceisiwr »

Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...

Because Jesus in the bible urges his followers to do so, because if your not a christian then according to the bible your going to hell for eternity so they think they are saving you by trying to convert you

There is also a feeling among some christians that other religions are all from the devil, how much of this is from the bible or just a post-biblical idea i dont know


:anjali:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
thornbush
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by thornbush »

To be fair, not all Christians of the 3 Traditions share such calculated methods of fulfilling 'The Great Commission of Christ' and also the style of half baked evangelists such as Steve Cioccolanti. in my many encounters with more respectable ones, it is sad that this case is often the one by which Christianity is most famously portrayed for. As an ex Christian of 2 traditions and as a Buddhist now, I must agree partially with Bhikkhu Pesala but also perhaps, some people out there need to see/hear an active rebuttal, however 'inadequate' it may have been, from the Buddhist perspective.

Namo Amitabha Buddha!
Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Individual »

puthujjana wrote:
Wu-Wei wrote:Image

:shock:

I'm really shocked :shock:

Why do christians have such a big desire to convert others? I can't understand it...
I blame God.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by jcsuperstar »

i dont remember where i came across it as it was many years ago but the idea was put forth that monotheistic religions are by their nature very insecure (i guess a polytheist really doesnt have to worry if the other guy's god is the "real" god cause he would accept that god as well) and as such feel the need to "prove" theyre the right religion through conversion.

its like i believe idea A and if i can get lots of people to also think idea A is correct then it must be...
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17186
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by DNS »

Over at Amazon.com I see that Ven. Dhammika's review has been removed. I don't know what happened or who did it. I sent an e-mail to Dhammika to ask him if he pulled it.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22390
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Ceisiwr »

It was probably to long
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22390
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by Ceisiwr »

I dont remember where i came across it as it was many years ago but the idea was put forth that monotheistic religions are by their nature very insecure


I agree here, monotheistic religions whole belief is centered around there being one all powerful being so they cant accept possibilties of other gods or no-gods since that would undermine everything that they hold dear (attachment to views)



:anjali:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by nathan »

My advice to buddhists is to tolerate any ignorance on the part of christians. It will only get much worse if you respond to it. It is just like dealing with a schoolyard bully or an internet troll. No offense intended to christians, simply advice to others to let them do their thing, they have been at this bs for a long, long time. Don't think you can get one up on them by playing their game. That would be assuming it is a game with rules.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Ven. Dhammika's review of Buddha to Jesus

Post by nathan »

For this kind of christian behavior, education is probably completely out of the question and counterproductive effort. This is the only hope buddhists have of overcoming unwanted friction with christians in general:

The Four Sublime States Contemplations on Love, Compassion, Sympathetic Joy and Equanimity
by Nyanaponika Thera

"These four attitudes are said to be excellent or sublime because they are the right or ideal way of conduct towards living beings (sattesu samma patipatti). They provide, in fact, the answer to all situations arising from social contact. They are the great removers of tension, the great peace-makers in social conflict, and the great healers of wounds suffered in the struggle of existence. They level social barriers, build harmonious communities, awaken slumbering magnanimity long forgotten, revive joy and hope long abandoned, and promote human brotherhood against the forces of egotism.

The Brahma-viharas are incompatible with a hating state of mind, and in that they are akin to Brahma, the divine but transient ruler of the higher heavens in the traditional Buddhist picture of the universe. In contrast to many other conceptions of deities, East and West, who by their own devotees are said to show anger, wrath, jealousy and "righteous indignation," Brahma is free from hate; and one who assiduously develops these four sublime states, by conduct and meditation, is said to become an equal of Brahma (brahma-samo). If they become the dominant influence in his mind, he will be reborn in congenial worlds, the realms of Brahma. Therefore, these states of mind are called God-like, Brahma-like."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Practice of Loving-Kindness (Metta) As Taught by the Buddha in the Pali Canon Compiled and translated by Ñanamoli Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
Post Reply