Looking for sariputta sutta

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Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:32 am

I cant find the Sutta where The Buddha asked if sariputta believed a certain teaching and he said he did not because he had not experienced it himself yet?

Does anyone know which one this is?
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:59 am

clw_uk wrote:I cant find the Sutta where The Buddha asked if sariputta believed a certain teaching and he said he did not because he had not experienced it himself yet?

Does anyone know which one this is?


You're probably thinking of the Pubbakoṭṭhaka Sutta (SN. v. 220-2), though your paraphrase is not an accurate one.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn48/sn48.044.than.html
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:24 am

Thank you Bhante for the link however i dont think thats the one, perhaps im confusing sariputta with someone else

Is there a sutta at all where the Buddha urges someone not to believe him just because he has said it? (accept the kalama sutta)
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:45 am

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:Thank you Bhante for the link however i dont think thats the one, perhaps im confusing sariputta with someone else

Is there a sutta at all where the Buddha urges someone not to believe him just because he has said it? (accept the kalama sutta)


I can't think of one. In fact the only one that comes to mind says almost exactly the opposite of this. :smile:

    Bhikkhus, for a faithful disciple who is intent on fathoming the Teacher’s dispensation, it is fitting that he conduct himself thus: “The Blessed One is the Teacher; I am his disciple. The Blessed One knows; I do not know.”
    (Kīṭāgiri Sutta, MN. 70)

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:45 am

An Excellent Man is Not Credulous

The man who is not credulous, who knows the uncreate,
who has cut off rebirth, who has destroyed all results,
and expelled all desires, he is truly an excellent man. (Dhp v 97)

Or maybe you're thinking of the Venerable Sāriputta's Lion's Roar in the Mahāparnibbāna Sutta, expanded in full in the Sampasādaniya Sutta of the Dighanikāya.
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:26 pm

Ive found where i read a passage in relation to what im searching for




The Buddha said that those who simply believe others are not truly wise. A wise person practices until he is one with the Dhamma, until he can have confidence in himself, independent of others.

On one occasion, while Venerable Sāriputta was sitting, listening respectfully at his feet as the Buddha expounded the Dhamma, the Buddha turned to him and asked,

''Sāriputta, do you believe this teaching?''

Venerable Sāriputta replied, ''No, I don't yet believe it.''

Now this is a good illustration. Venerable Sāriputta listened, and he took note. When he said he didn't yet believe he wasn't being careless, he was speaking the truth. He simply took note of that teaching, because he had not yet developed his own understanding of it, so he told the Buddha that he didn't yet believe - because he really didn't believe. These words almost sound as if Venerable Sāriputta was being rude, but actually he wasn't. He spoke the truth, and the Buddha praised him for it.

''Good, good, Sāriputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing.''






http://www.amaravati.org/abmnew/index.p ... ticle/436/




Where does this passage come from in the suttas?


Metta
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby gavesako » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 pm

The Buddha once asked Sariputta, "Do you believe what I have been explaining to you?" Sariputta answered, "Yes, I see that it is so." The Buddha asked him, "Are you saying this just out of faith in me?" Sariputta answered, "No, I answered in agreement not because of faith in the Blessed One, but because I clearly see for myself that it is so." [Pubbakotthaka Sutta, Saim. S.V. 220]


The Role of Faith in
Science and Buddhism
Bhikkhu P.A. Payutto
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english/sc ... 6-role.htm
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:39 am

Thanks Ven Gavesako,

The same story appears in one of Ajahn Chah's talks: http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Living_in_World_with.php He may have used a poor translation, or conflated a couple of Suttas.


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Re: Looking for sariputta sutta

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:38 am

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:Ive found where i read a passage in relation to what im searching for


Now that you've quoted it, I recall there was a discussion of this Ajahn Chah quote at E-sangha. The ajahn has simply given an inaccurate paraphrase of Sariputta's reply.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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