Pali Term: Dukkha

[Dmytro]

Hello Pali friends,

To interpret this key term, it's worthwhile to investigate the context where another word is used in place of 'dukkha', Bhara sutta:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This parallel with 'bhāra' (burdern, load) helps to understand "dukkha" as something diffucult to bear, a hardship. This is also an etymological origin of this word, where "du" refers to "difficult, hard", and "kha" to "bear, endure".

An article from Monier-Willams dictionary:

1 duHkha 1 mfn. (according to grammarians properly written %{duS-kha} and said to be from %{dus} and %{kha} [cf. %{su-kha4}] ; but more probably a Pra1kritized form for %{duH-stha} q.v.) uneasy , uncomfortable , unpleasant , difficult R. Hariv. (compar. %{-tara} MBh. R.) ; n. (ifc. f. %{A}) uneasiness , pain , sorrow , trouble , difficulty S3Br. xiv , 7 , 2 , 15 Mn. MBh. &c. (personified as the son of Naraka and Vedana1 VP.) ; (%{am}) ind. with difficulty , scarcely , hardly (also %{at} and %{ena}) MBh. R. ; impers. it is difficult to or to be (inf.with an acc. or nom. R. vii , 6 , 38 Bhag. v , 6) ; %{duHkham} - %{as} , to be sad or uneasy Ratn. iv , 19/20 ; - %{kR} , to cause or feel pain Ya1jn5. ii , 218 MBh. xii , 5298.
2 duHkha 2 Nom. P. %{-khati} , to pain SaddhP.

http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/tamil/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

Theare are also other contexts where "bhāra"is equated with "dukkha":

Bhāra [fr. bhṛ, Vedic bhāra; cp. bhara] 1. anything to carry, a load Vin iii.278 (Bdhgh; dāru˚ a load of wood). bhāraŋ vahati to carry a load A i.84; VvA 23. -- garu˚ a heavy load, as "adj." "carrying a heavy load" J v.439 (of a woman,=pregnant). -- bhāratara (adj.<-> compar.) forming a heavier load Miln 155. -- Cp. ati˚, sam˚. -- 2. a load, cartload (as measure of quantity) VvA 12 (saṭṭhi -- sakaṭa˚ -- parimāṇa); PvA 102 (aneka˚parimāṇa). -- 3. (fig.) a difficult thing, a burden or duty, i. e. a charge, business, office, task, affair Vism. 375; J i.292; ii.399; iv.427; vi.413; DhA i.6, 111. Several bhārā or great tasks are mentioned exemplifying the meaning of "gambhīra" & "duddasa" (saccāni) at VbhA 141, viz. mahā -- samuddaŋ manthetvā ojāya nīharaṇaŋ; Sineru -- pādato vālikāya uddharaṇaŋ; pabbataŋ pīḷetvā rasassa nīharaṇaŋ. -- 4. (fig.) in metaphors for the burden of (the factors of renewed) existence (the khandhas and similar agents). Esp. in phrase panna -- bhāra "one whose load (or burden) has been laid down," one who has attained Arahantship M i.139; A iii.84; S i.233; Dh 402 (=ohita -- khandha -- bhāra DhA iv.168); Sn 626 (same expln at SnA 467), 914 (expld as patita -- bhāra, oropita˚, nikkhitta˚ Nd1 334, where 3 bhāras in this sense are distinguished, viz. khandha˚, kilesa˚, abhisankhāra˚); Th 1, 1021. So at Vism 512 with ref. to the ariya -- saccāni, viz. bhāro= dukkha -- saccaŋ, bhār' ādānaŋ=samuda -- saccaŋ, bhāranikkhepanaŋ=nirodha -- s., bhāra -- nikkhepan'upāya = magga.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :3550.pali

Metta, Dmytro

[son of dhamma]

Dukkha is also referred to in the Pali Canon as aging, sickness, death, sorrow , grief , woe, lamentation , and despair ; in other words that which arises dependently of birth (dependent origination). Dukkha is our immediate experience of suffering. (1st Noble Truth)
with metta

[frank k]

Did the term dukkhā have common usage among regular folks before the Buddha adopted it as a noble truth?

[David N. Snyder]

Did the term dukkhā have common usage among regular folks before the Buddha adopted it as a noble truth?

Apparently so:

Sargeant, et. al. (2009: p. 303) provides the etymology of the Sanskrit words sukha and duḥkha:

It is perhaps amusing to note the etymology of the words sukha (pleasure, comfort, bliss) and duḥkha (misery, unhappiness, pain). The ancient Aryans who brought the Sanskrit language to India were a nomadic, horse- and cattle-breeding people who travelled in horse- or ox-drawn vehicles. Su and dus are prefixes indicating good or bad. The word kha, in later Sanskrit meaning "sky," "ether," or "space," was originally the word for "hole," particularly an axle hole of one of the Aryan's vehicles. Thus sukha … meant, originally, "having a good axle hole," while duhkha meant "having a poor axle hole," leading to discomfort.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha#Etymology

[frank k]

I listened to a dhamma talk recently where Ven. Dhammadipa gave the etymology of dukkhā as "being born under a bad sky". I assumed it was a common term predating the Buddha, as well as nibbana, arahant, etc.
-Frank

Did the term dukkhā have common usage among regular folks before the Buddha adopted it as a noble truth?

Apparently so:

Sargeant, et. al. (2009: p. 303) provides the etymology of the Sanskrit words sukha and duḥkha:

It is perhaps amusing to note the etymology of the words sukha (pleasure, comfort, bliss) and duḥkha (misery, unhappiness, pain). The ancient Aryans who brought the Sanskrit language to India were a nomadic, horse- and cattle-breeding people who travelled in horse- or ox-drawn vehicles. Su and dus are prefixes indicating good or bad. The word kha, in later Sanskrit meaning "sky," "ether," or "space," was originally the word for "hole," particularly an axle hole of one of the Aryan's vehicles. Thus sukha … meant, originally, "having a good axle hole," while duhkha meant "having a poor axle hole," leading to discomfort.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha#Etymology

[mikenz66]

Sargeant, et. al. (2009: p. 303) provides the etymology of the Sanskrit words sukha and duḥkha:

It is perhaps amusing to note the etymology of the words sukha (pleasure, comfort, bliss) and duḥkha (misery, unhappiness, pain). The ancient Aryans who brought the Sanskrit language to India were a nomadic, horse- and cattle-breeding people who travelled in horse- or ox-drawn vehicles. Su and dus are prefixes indicating good or bad. The word kha, in later Sanskrit meaning "sky," "ether," or "space," was originally the word for "hole," particularly an axle hole of one of the Aryan's vehicles. Thus sukha … meant, originally, "having a good axle hole," while duhkha meant "having a poor axle hole," leading to discomfort.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha#Etymology

Interestingly, this very quote is being discussed over on ZFI:
http://www.zenforuminternational.org//p ... =6&p=79342

So, despite the claims of this definition of the ill-fitting wheel, still no credible Buddhist source for it at this point in the thread.

A few pointers at dictionaries, however, and a reference to an annotated translation of the Bhagavad Gita here which is still uncited and unreferenced. (None of the classic commentaries on this verse of the Gita make any mention of such an etymology.)

Later he comments:

I have only seen this definition online. I've never encountered it in any Buddhist written material, be it classical or modern.
As for the number of hits, there is a very standard notion in scholarship that says "sources are weighed, not counted". This is especially important in the internet age. I'm not a fan of "consensus reality", or "democratic epistemology", in the sense of "lots of people say it, so it must be true".

Interesting, since this meaning does seem to be part of the folklore of modern Buddhism...

However, since this is the Pali Forum, does anyone have any evidence for the "ill fitting wheel" meaning based on the ancient Buddhist texts?


Mike

[cooran]

Hello all,

My teacher, Patrick Kearney, has discussed this during a Retreat and said that this term literally translates as a badly fitting axle in a wheel. The sense of a “difficult
grind” helps to provide meaning to this translation.

I'll see if I can get any more detailed references to the origin.

with metta
Chris

[mikenz66]

Hi Chris,

Yes, Patrick is one of the many who mention that entymology. The question, in the context of the Pali Forum, is whether there are sound references for that derivation, or whether it is an idea that has become popular. Since I'm not expert on Pali I can't comment one way or the other.

I can't see it mentioned in the PDS dictionary: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :2483.pali

I did find this reference:
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/atta/ad03.htm

In Sanskrit, the word duḥkham is derived from a prefix duḥ plus ka meaning wheel with an ill-sorted hub and spokes[13], thus duḥkha (adj) means unharmonious or conflicting, ill-functioning or distressful.

[13] [13] Prof. Kalupahana: “A History of Buddhist Philosophy”, University of Hawaii Press 1992; Delhi 1994. P. 95

Unfortunately, the Google Books preview doesn't include that page: http://books.google.nl/books?id=SlDArya ... &q&f=false


Mike

[cooran]

Thanks Mike.

Unfortunately I can't check with Patrick for some considerable time as he is on Retreat in Malaysia until early March.

with metta
Chris

[Buckwheat]

Anything wrong with translating dukkha as "frustration"?

Frsutration: a deep chronic sense or state of insecurity and dissatisfaction arising from unresolved problems or unfulfilled needs

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/frustration

[Dmytro]

Hi Buckwheat,

Anything wrong with translating dukkha as "frustration"?

This refers just to the mental part, while dukkha is of two kinds: one originated from the contact of 'mano', and one originated from the contact of other five sense doors.


Katamañca bhikkhave dukkhaṃ: yaṃ kho bhikkhave kāyikaṃ dukkhaṃ kāyikaṃ asātaṃ kāyasamphassajaṃ dukkhaṃ asātaṃ vedayitaṃ, idaṃ vuccati bhikkhave dukkhaṃ.

Katamañca bhikkhave domanassaṃ: yaṃ kho bhikkhave cetasikaṃ dukkhaṃ cetasikaṃ asātaṃ manosamphassajaṃ dukkhaṃ asātaṃ vedayitaṃ, idaṃ vuccati bhikkhave domanassaṃ.


"And what is pain? Whatever is experienced as bodily pain, bodily discomfort, pain or discomfort born of bodily contact, that is called pain.

"And what is distress? Whatever is experienced as mental pain, mental discomfort, pain or discomfort born of mental contact, that is called distress.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta, Dmytro

[piotr]

Hi,

In Sanskrit, the word duḥkham is derived from a prefix duḥ plus ka meaning wheel with an ill-sorted hub and spokes[13], thus duḥkha (adj) means unharmonious or conflicting, ill-functioning or distressful.

[13] [13] Prof. Kalupahana: “A History of Buddhist Philosophy”, University of Hawaii Press 1992; Delhi 1994. P. 95

Unfortunately, the Google Books preview doesn't include that page: http://books.google.nl/books?id=SlDArya ... &q&f=false

Here's the quote:

The term for happiness is sukha (etymologically explained as su-kha, meaning “having a good axle-hole,” that is, a vehicle moving smoothly without constraints).

— David J. Kalupahana, A history of Buddhist philosophy : continuities and discontinuities, p.95

[Dmytro]

Hi,

[list]The term for happiness is sukha (etymologically explained as su-kha, meaning “having a good axle-hole,” that is, a vehicle moving smoothly without constraints).

This is one of two explanations from Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary:

sukh/a [L=245611] mfn. (said to be fr. 5. su + 3. kha , and to mean originally " having a good axle-hole " ; possibly a Prakrit form of su-stha q.v. ; cf. duHkha) running swiftly or easily (only applied to cars or chariots , superl. sukh/a-tama) , easy RV.

duHkh/a 1 [p= 483,2] [L=93403] mfn. (according to grammarians properly written duSh-kha and said to be from dus and kha [cf. su-kh/a] ; but more probably a Prakritized form for duH-stha q.v.) uneasy , uncomfortable , unpleasant , difficult R. Hariv. (compar. -tara MBh. R. )

duHstha

duH--stha [p= 483,2] [L=93370] mfn. " standing badly " , unsteady , disquieted (lit. and fig.)
uneasy , unhappy , poor , miserable Pur. Ra1jat.
ignorant , unwise , a fool L.
covetous W.
duH--stham [L=93374] ind. badly , ill
with √sthaa , to be unwell Amar. 29.

http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/

I also think that the explanation "duH-stha" - 'hard to stand (endure)' - is more probable.

Metta, Dmytro